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Chris MD Little
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
 Posted - 13/09/2016 : 13:37:38
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I am after a scrap front axle beam so that I can cut a lump off it and have it analysed to determine the material, and from that the required heat treatment to restore the original toughness. An N type would be ideal but as I suspect all MMM axles were probably made from the same material anything would do.
I will publicise my findings on here so that we all know what we are dealing with.
Best regards,
Chris.
PS. If anyone already knows the answer to this for sure please let me know.
Chris Little |
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McEvoy
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 19/09/2016 : 18:28:54
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Chris,
I have a M Type axle beam with one stub axle that I am about to put on e-bay. If you are interested a fiver and transport costs and its yours.
Bob |
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Chris MD Little
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2016 : 07:53:26
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Hi Bob,
Yes I'm very interested.
Whereabouts are you based and I'll come and collect? I am near Cheltenham.
Many thanks,
Chris.
Chris Little |
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Ian Bowers
United Kingdom
938 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2016 : 09:08:11
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Chris
At the same time as having the material analysed, it is worth having a hardness test. This will tell whether there was specific any heat treatment before installation.
I notice that at the centre underside of the axle beam on my J3 there is the indent of a Brinell Hardness test, though I have no idea of where or when it was done, or the result.
Ian Bowers
OD 6791
J3 3772 |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3672 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2016 : 09:27:11
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Chris,
Bob is in Suffolk - fuller details on the contacts page.
Dick Morbey
PA/PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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Chris MD Little
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2016 : 09:31:04
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Hi Ian,
Yes you are right.
I have had a spare N axle and a J2 axle hardness tested. This work has shown that the axles were heat treated originally to maximise toughness, and that using heat to straighten them completely destroys their strength.
It is possible to re-heat treat the axle to restore the strength but the spec for this should be based on knowing what the material is.
I will publicise whatever data I can produce.
Best regards,
Chris
Chris Little |
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george
United Kingdom
862 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2016 : 12:20:21
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| Am I the only one who feels a bit uncomfortable with the idea of destroying an M axle in order to determine the grade of steel? The time will surely come when said axle would find a better use on a car. A rather uncomfortable Geoff |
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Chris MD Little
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2016 : 13:06:31
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George,
You are right. I had hoped to find one that is damaged past further use. This M axle will only be used as a last resort and I am working on getting the information elsewhere as well.
Chris.
Chris Little |
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John James
United Kingdom
960 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2016 : 15:47:58
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If my memory serves me right, Mark Jablonski had a TC axle analysed and it was found to be the equivalent of today's EN17.
I have the source document somewhere but can't lay my hands on it just now. |
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McEvoy
United Kingdom
252 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2016 : 09:47:09
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Chris I have replied by e-mail.
George I can share your concern but having attempted to sell it at both last year's and this years Stoneleigh plus Peter Green's Summer Gathering without any interest from potential buyers I can only assume that there is no demand. I don't think the £5 put buyers off!
So it might be a worthwhile sacrifice if it provides new information regarding a critical part of our cars.
Bob |
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PreWarMG
Australia
395 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2016 : 10:43:03
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I will send you 10 pounds and pay for freight to Australia.
There may be no demand for spare front axles in the UK, but I would sleep better knowing I had a spare in the shed here !.
We are here for a good time, not a long time !. |
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rustcollector
United Kingdom
410 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2016 : 09:34:49
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Chris,
This will indeed be very useful information.
It would then allow us to heat an axle to straighten, instead of doing it cold and risk cracking.
Then heat treat after, I assume it might require a small tweak after heat treatment, to correct any distortion.
Looking forward to hearing the material make up.
How is it confirmed, by hardness and elongation tests, or can they tell by grain structure under microscope.
Do you think the whole axle would have been heat treated or just say 10" at either end, leaving the rest in "normalised condition ". |
Edited by - rustcollector on 27/09/2016 09:35:43 |
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Chris MD Little
United Kingdom
79 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2016 : 16:48:07
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Hi Folks,
My information so far is that the whole axle beam was heat treated. This is on the basis of hardness measurements at different points, but I will know a lot more if I can get sight of the drawings. I have a draft heat treatment spec now but it is something that I want to be sure about.
Best regards,
Chris.
Chris Little |
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Ron Grant
United Kingdom
160 Posts |
Posted - 15/10/2016 : 09:35:22
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Hi Chris
I thought it was fairly well known, that J4/L type front axles, whilst being the "same " as a J2 , we're more desirable because they were " tougher" wether this down to heat treatment or possibly a higher grade material I don't know.
Many labs these days do not need to have a chunk of the old axle, a good axle can be " sparked" and an accurate analysis done from that , and the axle can be reused. It will not tell you what heat treatment was carried out.
Ron |
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Ian Bowers
United Kingdom
938 Posts |
Posted - 15/10/2016 : 10:47:18
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The pattern of heat treatment can be deduced from the hardness.
Ian Bowers
OD 6791
J3 3772 |
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