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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1481 Posts |
 Posted - 24/03/2018 : 18:25:04
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At last an official Survey (published by the RAC) finds that nearly twp thirds of motorists canvassed complain that they are often blinded by the intense light put out by the headlights of modern cars. Having spoken to quite a number of my friends, I have found that many of them agree with this and some avoid being out in their old cars after dark. Some suggest that it is just a problem of "old age" (of driver - not car) but I think that this is not really the cause of the problem. I have noticed that the main culprits seem to be modern German built 4x4s - but not all such vehicles dazzle me, and possibly two thirds of moderns cause no difficulty at all, as do most vans, buses and lorries of any vintage.
I wonder whether some car manufacturers set the headlights for all new cars for continental use i.e. for those who drive on the right hand side of the road, and leave the U.K. importers to make any necessary changes to beam setting before the cars are delivered to U.K. customers - which frequently gets overlooked.. I have noticed that few if any Japanese cars give a problem of dazzle (as they drive on the same side of the road as we do).
This really is a major problem as if you face two or more of these brutes, one after the other you can lose sight of the nearside kerb or grass verge for several seconds - which could be absolutely disastrous. If I am going to be out after dark, I always put on a pair of yellow tinted "anti-glare" glasses which I find helps a lot.
The RAC Report has been put out by The Press Association, who for some reason or another illustrated the report with an image of an racing Austin A35 with its headlights on - and nice and warm and non-dazzling they are.
Colin B.
Colin B. |
Edited by - Colin Butchers on 24/03/2018 18:27:23 |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1955 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2018 : 19:13:44
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Hello, Colin.
I’m so pleased you have brought this subject up. I have wondered for some time now whether I was the only one to be concerned about the increasing intensity of modern vehicle lighting.
It seems that in their zeal to produce better and more powerful lighting the manufacturers have given little regard to the effects on the vision of oncoming motorists.
Like you, I now always use yellow tinted glasses for night driving and find them indispensable.
Regards,
Chris. |
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CrashBox
United Kingdom
40 Posts |
Posted - 24/03/2018 : 20:57:43
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I'm only in my mid-40s and find some of these High-intensity discharge (HID) headlamps too be far too bright. And when you are being followed by such a car it can be very annoying and distracting, even when you dip the rear-view mirror. My modern daily driver has an electrochromic mirror which darkens automatically, but even that is sometimes not enough. And it also removes the physical action of dipping the mirror which (hopefully) draws to the attention of the following driver that his lights are set wrong.
Another thing that annoys me is LED rear lights. There's a reason why side-lights are only 5w and brake-lights are 21w. Many LED rear lights are as bright as brake-lights. Very uncomfortable to a following driver. |
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i.thomson
United Kingdom
399 Posts |
Posted - 25/03/2018 : 09:50:35
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I often wonder if the construction and use regulations are still stuck in the days when light output was not regulated directly but indirectly through power consumption. Thus we get 5 watt sidelights and 21 watt brake lights and indicators. In these days of ever more efficient technology this way of measuring output is clearly a nonsense as ever more light output can be wrung out of the same power consumption. No doubt some European, or wider, worldwide regulations have superseded this but I feel sure that they can still not measuring light output directly. Either that or some sort of misguided attempt at health and safety has gained sway whereby more light is deemed always to be safer in much the same way as slower speeds are deemed to always be safer with the speed regulators. The move to ever more complicated front end treatments in which car designers seem to be making life ever difficult for the light designers has the effect that light beams are not as well controlled as in the days when we had boring old (but efficient) round lights. Add to this the tendency towards ever larger, that is taller, vehicles which put the beams right in the eyeliner of smaller cars and you have a recipe for danger, not safety...in my opinion.
Ian Thomson |
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Keith Durston
United Kingdom
698 Posts |
Posted - 25/03/2018 : 10:47:15
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I too am amazed at the dazzle factor of modern lights. It appears to me that the main culprits are the 4x4 Range Rovery type vehicles where the drivers sit so much higher than saloon cars and which absolutely tower over any sort of low sports car, old or modern. The lights in these vehicles are set correspondingly higher to those in saloon cars but the angle of the beam on the driving or dipped lights appears to be much the same as the saloon cars. This, for the drivers of these vehicles, must give spectacular visibility but clearly at the expense of the visibility of lower vehicles coming the other way and which must be an important safety factor. In this modern world of, in my opinion, often over zealous safety measures I am astonished that this subject has not been taken up by one or more of the motoring organisations. I am still on 6 volt lighting on my M type and don't venture out after dark but I also drive a Mazda MX5 which at night really is a challenge most of the time.
Keith |
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coracle
United Kingdom
1876 Posts |
Posted - 25/03/2018 : 23:35:16
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The height of the dipped beam bulb of a Range Rover is 900mm. That of a P type MG on standard tyres is 858mm.
The height of the dipped light is regulated and must be between 500mm and 1200mm; see http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/schedule/4/made
The beam pattern and reach is also regulated for new and tested on vehicles subject to the MOT. No account is taken of the driver's height.
It is not the type of vehicle emitting the light that causes the dazzle, rather the type and colour of the light together with the accuracy of adjustment of the lights.
A lower driving position of the recipient of the light is bound to exacerbate the problem. If you think about the geometry of the beam which has to have a fixed forward reach, then a source higher above the ground is less, rather than more likely to dazzle. |
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dade
United Kingdom
503 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2018 : 09:22:19
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Just another reason for Blinding Headlamps is that in many modern cars especially 4x4's it is possible to adjust headlamps depending on the load that the vehicle is carrying!
I wonder how many drivers bother?
Russ |
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coracle
United Kingdom
1876 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2018 : 11:16:04
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| The Range Rover has sensors that reset the beam automatically, precisely to avoid this problem. |
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Cooperman
United Kingdom
755 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2018 : 18:13:35
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My Volvo has this and resets the lights when you switch the engine off.
John Cooper M 628 |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2495 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2018 : 19:10:19
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An example Ian of your point about the way regulations haven't caught up is that I can legally fit my MGA with 60 watt main beams but, although I can buy 100 watt ones, they are not road legal. Too bright perhaps?
As for the treatment of the front end, what about the rear? I am firmly of the opinion that vehicle lighting is now regarded as a styling point rather than a necessary evil whose primary design criterion should be the improvement of function. The relationship between brake light and indicators of many (all?) modern cars is such that, when braking, the indicators (which are frequently very small) are very easy to miss.
Many years ago I had a Citroen which had a vertical stack of 4 large blocks of colour at the back, from top down, tail; indicator; reverse; brake. It was brilliant because a) the brake & tail lamps were completely separate and b) the brake & indicator lights were separated by the reverse lights. Good practical design, not styling. It didn't look bad though!
Dave |
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LewPalmer
USA
3209 Posts |
Posted - 26/03/2018 : 22:28:54
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Another good reason to fit LRDs at the rear.
I don't know about other places, but here in the US, over 25% of all accidents are caused by inattentive or distracted drivers. When I am out in my Triple-M cars I worry about not being noticed by that person behind while on their cell phone. Thus I have fitted LED inserts (which I manufacture) so they can't help but notice I am braking or turning. That may dazzle the driver behind, you say? GOOD, I certainly hope so!
Lew Palmer
PA1169, PB0560 |
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Cooperman
United Kingdom
755 Posts |
Posted - 27/03/2018 : 15:09:45
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At the weekend I partnered a chap in a Trojan who had a very bad experience of being hit from behind in a Trojan on the Exeter Trial on the A303 a couple of years ago. The other 89 year old driver in a Ford KA simply ran into the back of him and asked "why were you going slowly?" John and his passenger were both seriously injured, and police confirmed he had good rear lights and that they were on. John suffered multiple injuries including a brain bleed which resulted in him being restricted from driving for about a year until he was passed fit by the Doctors. His passenger although now physically recovered still suffers from some kind of psychological problems, I'm not sure quite what. Another friend has a flashing yellow light which he fixes to his rear offside wing, even during daylight, slow vehicles, tractors and machines have to have these by law.
Thus even if you do everything right have the correct lighting there are still those who perhaps shouldn't be driving. I try to keep off dual carriageways and motorways, particularly at night.
John Cooper M 628 |
Edited by - Cooperman on 27/03/2018 15:11:44 |
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briang
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2018 : 23:47:18
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I would just like to emphasise the point made earlier that wearing yellow tinted glasses will help quite a lot. You can buy Flip-up yellow plastic lenses on the internet for about £2.50 each. I ordered a bag of them and many of the folk at my local natter now use them.
The effect is to reduce the flare around the approaching lights. The intensity is also somewhat reduced, but it is the flare reduction that helps most. It means that you can keep your eyes open when the bright lights come towards you and stay safely on the road rather than in the ditch.
People old enough to have used a film camera with black & white film may remember we used to fit a yellow filter on our lens to increase the contrast and definition of the image, and I think that's why the yellow filter also helps in Fog and Heavy rain spraying up as on a motorway.
It's in daylight conditions of Fog and Spray that the benefit of Flip-up fittings over a separate pair of glasses is most obvious.
Everyone should have a pair!
Brian |
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