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Dolts
United Kingdom
1128 Posts |
 Posted - 26/09/2011 : 10:59:44
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Hi All, after enjoying my investigations on Triple M's at Crystal Palace I m thinking of my next project.
So how about Triple M's at Prescott Hill Climb. Anything like this been done before?
Be keen to know your thoughts or any other suggestions on venues to investigate
Thanks
M
Mark Dolton
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 28/09/2011 : 16:17:29
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Mark
Might be rather a LONG article!
As far as I know MG's have competed at VSCC Prescott at every meeting since 1960 - some even at the very first meeting before the war too.
Certainly since 1976 MMM cars have been accepted by the club - but before then cars with a "history of pre-war competition" were also accepted (some would have said under sufference).
Fastest time by a MMM car at Prescott is probably Colvin Gunn in the C-R special - but Charles Jones has also been rather quick too - also Mike Painter.
In the late 90's Bill Summers managed FTD in Richard K1 ss special (Campaigned more recently by Annie Templeton).
My old man managed a time of 49.7 in the blue NA-0307 in the late 70's using a 7:37 diff and LOTS of revs - but he did also drive the car home in the evening both Saturday and Sunday and also ran the car at Silverstone the week after.
VSCC Prescott was the highlight of a years competition (if you got an entry) I fear that recently it has become rather too popular, expensive and lost some if its appeal (for me at least).
I first ran there in the Blue NA as a replacement for Dad who had been taken ill - I thoroughly enjoyed my day managed a time of 54.00 which wasnt bad considering I was on an 8:39 axle ratio and restricted to just 5000 rpm because the car still had an original (and suspect) crankshaft (probably thanks to the aformentioned LOTS of revs).
I did get told off on Saturday morning for waving at the marshalls - the clerk of the course accepted my excuse "I was bored" because the car was sooooooooo slow in comparison to my mod sports MG Midget on slick tyres (time up Prescott sub 40).
I am sure the article would be a great idea - good luck my freind!
Regards David |
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Dolts
United Kingdom
1128 Posts |
Posted - 28/09/2011 : 16:50:31
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Thanks David, I might tap into your knowledge some more!!
I might split the investigation into eras, as you say it could be long for one study!
Anyway I m off to meet Paul Gibbons BOC Archivist in October at Prescott. I ll update you on how I get on!
In the meantime if anyone else has any nuggets of info, highlights or stories please send them on..
Mark Dolton
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Keith Durston
United Kingdom
701 Posts |
Posted - 28/09/2011 : 17:04:36
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David, are you sure Colvin Gunn's car was a C-R replica. I knew Colvin very well and was aware of his P-Q replica which he claimed was the fastest MMM car in the UK at the time. Could it have been this car?
Keith |
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3230 Posts |
Posted - 28/09/2011 : 18:04:37
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Hi Tony
Writing up the triple-M history of both Prescott (and Shelsley Walsh?) would be great - as you suggest perhaps it would be best done split into eras.
Colvin Gunn did indeed drive the ex Evans C with R type engine when it was in the ownership of Mike Edmundson. The car was indecently quick and Colvin was fearlees and skilled, I saw him at Shelsley when the car was weaving about on the hill due to some wheel spin!
The other regular is of course Mike Dowley who was also quick using a low ratio diff in my old PB ARY614. Mike now owns the ex Evans C/R which has been rebuilt by Oliver Richardson; it now sports twin rear wheels rather than singles used by Colvin. Perhaqps we will see the car in action next year.
Regards
George |
Edited by - George Eagle on 28/09/2011 18:06:10 |
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Mike Allison
United Kingdom
196 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2011 : 09:42:33
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Mark, more than happy to collaborate with you on an article of Triple-M at Prescott. I attended more meetings than not from around 1959, and knew many of the cars then competing, and all this eventually got me going with the NA... I never got an entry with it as the "Blue Whale", but once it was rebuilt was often there. Sadly I never kept record of what I did,or anyone else for that matter: it was enough to be part of the scene. I remember one occasion in the seventies, when we drove to the meeting in the NA on Saturday morning and practised. Then, in the same car, drove down to Steve Dear's at Congresbury for a party, and then was back on the Sunday morning in time for my first timed run! At the end of the day we drove home again: who needs a trailer?
Best wishes,
Mike |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2011 : 10:37:06
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Keith
Clovins P type special was NEVER as fast as the C-R Special.
The C-R was built by Wilkie Wilkinson for Dennis and Kenneth Evans for sprint and hillclimb racing.
Starting life as a C type the car was gradually lightened - shortened and given more horsepower until in its ultimate form it was fitted with an R type engine removed from one of the Bellvue R type cars fitted with a twin cam engine.
Rebecca Gunn still refers to the car in the same vain as her late father (the world is poorer that he is no longer with us) as "THE UMP!"
The car gained the title due to its fits of temper - often refusing to run cleanly until suddenly running clean without worning and pitching the car sideways with a sudden rush of power.
The P type special was developed by Colvin over many years and is still used by his son James and daughter Rebecca in sprints and hillclimbs.
Fitted with a Q type style body - the car was used on both road and track.
It was certainly always quick Colvin and James often in the top three in the upto 1100 cc class - but they were normally edged out by the Hardy Special for absolute pace - the C-R was always faster.
Mark
Another car which used to go well at VSCC Prescott meetings was Peter Cranage's N type special - it was certainly the fastest unblown MG at every venue it competed at - often giving the blown cars a bloody nose in the process.
It is such a pity that this car has now sprouted a blower and a pre-selector gearbox.
I think that Ray Masters also went rather well in the Monk Special - but I would bow to Ray's superior knowlege there (he certainly held the class record at VSCC Curborough for about 30 years with the car).
The car used to compete head to head with Brian Gray's Hardy Special II and honours used to be pretty even.
Regards David |
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kimber
United Kingdom
1529 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2011 : 12:49:49
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Don Moore's P-special ran there... upside down. - I have the date somewhere.
Definitely remember seeing, or more to the point, hearing Ray Masters Q-engined special at Prescott.
At this rate we'll be writing the article for you Mark! (If only it were that easy). |
Edited by - kimber on 29/09/2011 12:54:22 |
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Cathelijne
Netherlands
744 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2011 : 14:10:39
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Not to mention that everything will have been read by everyone!
Perhaps you gentlemen could start an off line email discussion and keep the final outcome a surprise to Yearbook readers??? 
Cheers,
Cat
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Dolts
United Kingdom
1128 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2011 : 14:18:34
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And I thought I could just cut and paste!!!
If you would like to contribute please contact me on mdjdolton@gmail.com
Speak soon!!
Thanks
M
Mark Dolton
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Ray Masters
United Kingdom
563 Posts |
Posted - 30/09/2011 : 12:17:52
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Thanks for the mention, David. Yes, I ran at Prescott in 1973. I only did it the once. It was my first visit there whether as a spectator or entrant. I did a best run of 49.5 secs in the Q-engined single seater. Not quick considering the car's potential but (excuses now ) it was my first sight of the hill & as everyone knows you have to do a place a few times to get to know it.
The same circumstances at Shelsley . Only did it once in 1975 with a best time of 42.5 secs. In contrast my son ,saw the place for the first time about 3 years ago , & did a run in 29.6 secs in his Jedi single seater with a Yamaha engine!.
Regarding Curborough, David , I think about 13 years not 30 . Record then taken by Brian Gray in the Hardy Special. Good days!. |
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JMH
United Kingdom
911 Posts |
Posted - 30/09/2011 : 13:47:10
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Back in the 50s, the MG Car Club used to be invited to enter a "Team" at some Prescott events & this was usually made up of "hot-shots" in (then) modern machinery. However one year Gordon Cobham thought it would be a good idea to encourage younger members of the club & included in the team a couple of J2s with enthusiastic pilots - the usual suspects from that period! I'll forward you the info I have on the "Great Event"
JH
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 12:53:00
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David
Are you correct in saying that the Evans C-R was shortened? I thought it was lengthened.
Peter. |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 13:22:36
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Peter
I think that it has been lengthened once more to C type length during the recent re-build.
It could be that I am mistaken - but I always understood that the car was shortened during its development by Wilkie (something he regretted afterwards).
Regards David |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 00:57:17
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David,
I do not know when the chassis was lengthened but I do know that it was not altered during the recent restoration of the car. The present wheelbase is a couple of inches longer than standard and it has been that length all the time I have known the car. I was told, but I do not know if it is correct, that the chassis was lengthened to accommodate the R type engine.
Peter. |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 08:45:06
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Must be my mistake then Peter
Regards David |
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