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gerard van der veen
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2017 : 13:25:04
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Hello fellow MMM people, I am new/fresh to the register.... I have a general question; I would like to know more about my just acquired MG PA, made in 1934. I know the first (1935 M.Stevens, Fulmouth), second (1936 J.Browning, Chelsea) (MG Archive) and last owner (Seller M.Loeser, Agusta, USA), but for the rest completely blank. The last owner didn't know much. He himself was a USA citizen, paid a visit to the UK in late 70's to a 'Wirewheel Shop near London' where it stood, liked it and took it to the States. Drove about 100-200 miles with it; had trans axle/gearbox problems, stored it until half a year ago. I am in the process of getting it back on its original UK number BCV18(have evidence), but don't know anything about it. Already in 1936, both first/second owners complained about the performance (MG Archive) and asked for an PB engine... It has a PB engine but don't know when that happened. Warranty, Chassis & Bonnet carry the same number PA1671, but the body had a change;1795. It would be great if anybody could tell me a little about the car.... thank you for reading this post.
gerard van der veen |
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LewPalmer
USA
3201 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2017 : 15:02:32
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Nothing on the NAMMMR. We heave a Fred Loeser but not an M. Loeser and they are at opposite ends of the country if M Loeser is from Agusta, Georgia.
Lew Palmer PA1169, PB0560 |
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3217 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2017 : 20:27:36
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Hi Gerard
Congratulations on your purchase of PA1761, it looks to be a nice original car.
I expect you are aware the car is listed in the Register, it has Register number 1786 and the engine number is listed as 847 APB. The note states the body is alloy.
I expect you are also aware that you can obtain a copy of the chassis file from the MG Car Club - there is a fee payable.
George L2023 |
Edited by - George Eagle on 09/04/2017 20:32:15 |
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gerard van der veen
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2017 : 23:08:58
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Hi Lew, George, thank you for your kind response; I bought the car 'relative' blind (based on 20 photo's) and know nothing of the car... I am a petrol/steampunk and like engineering challenges, did some restoration work before. Yes Lew, Michael Loeser is from Georgia. Earlier he was located in New Yersey before moving towards the South. And yes George, I am registered at the MMM (+MG Club member) and received all/few archive files from the factory. Due to a body change I have only a few original dash parts (the rev counter and the rhombic panel but without the correct central horn/dipper switch -the missing trafficators I am restoring now-, plus the other panel), ugly alu helmet lamps (and a 1972 midget dual Smiths gauge, un-connected?). The seats are from another car (including the dried dead mouse + nest and found two US dollar coins in it). I am cleaning the car and noticed that all grease points are dry and already the 3rd copper line came/was loose from its bush at its grease point; are these 'soft' soldered? Is it not better to 'silver' solder these? In checking my back axle; I've lifted the car; how much free play is the rear wheel allowed to have, before taking it all 'down'... and the crown/pin gear is gone. I borrowed an optimistic MG book by M. Green (amazon £500!!) in which he warns you that about all P axles are likely to be perished; (under-)designed for 20hp...had to resist double>> trouble. Maybe again I am at the wrong forum, will not ask more, kind regards, Gerard.
gerard van der veen |
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LewPalmer
USA
3201 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2017 : 14:57:00
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Gerard,
yes, by all means the lubrication pipes should be silver soldered. And never run grease through them, but a heavy oil instead.
Lew Palmer PA1169, PB0560 |
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Keith Wallace
United Kingdom
367 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2017 : 18:14:01
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Can I ask why the oiling and fuel systems on our cars are silver soldered and not lead soldered?
Just wondered,
Keith Wallace |
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LewPalmer
USA
3201 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2017 : 18:57:09
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Vibration can cause the soft solder joint to fracture. Silver solder much less likely to do so.
Lew Palmer PA1169, PB0560 |
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Bruce Sutherland
United Kingdom
1539 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2017 : 19:08:56
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Keith, A simple explanation - others more expert than I, please update/amend:
'Ordinary' tin-lead solders have lower melting temperature (typically less than 250 deg C) - uses e.g. wiring to eyelets/bullet connectors, etc.
Silver solders melt at much higher temperatures (700+ deg C) and are used where higher strength joints are required e.g. brazing - hence used for copper/brass/steel joints - often used with dissimilar metals. Triple-M uses: copper tubing to brass or steel ends/connectors.
Next comes welding at higher temperatures and stronger joints, usually associated with joints for like-to-like metals.
Bruce. (PB0564) |
Edited by - Bruce Sutherland on 12/04/2017 19:10:52 |
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gerard van der veen
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2017 : 22:44:17
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Hi Lew, Keith and Bruce, Thanks for the info. In the mean time an additional owner was mentioned but no date's or place's of this gentleman; P D Colbourne.
gerard van der veen |
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gerard van der veen
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 15/04/2017 : 10:48:28
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Hi, I just received some extra information: the donor car of the PB engine has been allocated; Chassis number PB0587, belonging to a mr. Worthington, the MMM register last info dates back to 1967.. Looking at the part numbers, both engine and gearbox are stamped with an additional number 199, which could mean that it was a 'major' transplant. How successful it was I do not now... according to Ged, the engine has 'compression', but I don't dare to start it before it is cleaned, checked and re-checked, re-oiled, re-greased etc... but I am very curious...but patient.
gerard van der veen |
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Oz34
United Kingdom
2483 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2017 : 19:43:07
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Gerard, 199 is a code for PB. PAs with the original single breather had the code 135 and when they fitted the second downwards breather as fitted to the PB, the code changed to 165. Here is a, not necessarily exhaustive, list of these codes;
Cheers,
Dave |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
5945 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2017 : 19:50:22
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quote: Originally posted by Oz34
Here is a, not necessarily exhaustive, list of these codes;
For an exhaustive list, check out the 2016 Yearbook, available shortly from the Library
Simon J J3437 |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3668 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2017 : 21:07:05
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And a similar (and maybe more detailed?) list is included in the annual printed listing of cars, which should be available at Silverstone in mid-June..
Dick Morbey PA/PB 0743 Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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gerard van der veen
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2017 : 22:10:50
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That is quite a (pleasant) surprise... Carrying a tiny booklet cover of a MG (PA), every visit to the UK. Forty years later, suddenly I found a 'quirky' advert, thought why not.. I like all pre-war (and most post war) MG's, but thought a PB would be nice; now even the gearbox appears to indicate, 199, likely PB.
Thank you all for the additional leads; I'll acquire the MMM yearbook 2016 and will try to get hold on the annual listing of MG's..
Off to the garage, more cleaning work... found dried-out mouse, few dollar cents... what more?
gerard van der veen |
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gerard van der veen
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2017 : 20:51:23
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Following the 'TWO' breather issue; it appears I have only one breather... I have enclosed two pictures; one from a book, indicating as where the 2nd breather should be. Sorry it is dirty and the essential missing water pump I have already bought at VintageMGparts!
Unfortunately that hole on my PB engine is blanked of with an aluminium plate... Is there somebody with a photo or drawing as how this breather looks like... maybe I can reproduce it..
I will the sides of the engine anyway, following the book there could be a lot of sludge behind all plates (that is the cooling system plates). But I will also check this 'oil crank case' plate...
gerard van der veen |
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dade
United Kingdom
503 Posts |
Posted - 22/04/2017 : 08:52:16
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Hi Gerard your second B/W photo shows exactly what the double breather looks like,bolted to the twin apertures should be a Brass casting from which a tube carries the crankcase vapours and pressure to the atmosphere.
Double Breather pipe fitted to PA from 2123AP and onto PB and NB
Just a word of warning regarding removing all of the tiny bolts that secure the covers to the engine block, take time and use heat and patience in order not to break the studs off.
They always seem to break flush with the block face and the work involved in rectifying the situation is a pain!
Russ PB0333
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