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Matt Spoljarevic
Australia
15 Posts |
 Posted - 21/07/2018 : 23:57:27
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Would anyone have a template, pattern or even a good photo with dimensions, of an original M Type Dashboard? circa 1931 if they differed at all
My car has had the dash replaced with ply, and the instruments & dash plate replaced with non originals, and I am trying to replace them all either back to an original configuration or at least as close to it as possible.
I have some Ash to use for the dash, but I am fairly confident that the shape and size of the current dash is wrong, and it also only has an open glove box with no lid. So I would prefer to work off a template or sizes from an original dash if possible.
A couple of us here in QLD AU, are having some oval dash plates made up using an original as a pattern, so I have that part covered. But I am still chasing original instruments and switches, if any one has any of these for sale could you please contact me.
My starter button and headlight switch appear to be correct, but everything else is either wrong or missing.
Thank you |
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Blue M
United Kingdom
1457 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2018 : 09:13:41
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| Hi Matt. You need to find some half inch mahogany. Can you not just draw round your ply one for the outside pattern? |
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Malcolm Eades
United Kingdom
379 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2018 : 10:32:35
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Matt,
There are lots of previous threads on this subject and, as the sticky in the Technical forum suggests, it is best if you exhaust this source first. The archive will take you a long way down the road and clarify a lot of your questions. Search "M Type Dash", ticking Match Exact Phrase and Archive.
There are two types of dash. The early one has an oval unlidded cubby hole, whilst the one used 1930 onwards has a rectangular lidded glovebox. The early central panel was shiny metal whilst the later one is painted black. The early instruments were white-faced, the later ones black. Again there are many posts. Try "M Type Instruments".
Blue M is right about mahogany; ash won't look right. 1/2" mahogany is a bit prone to cracking, so there is a school of thought that recommends laminating the back with ply to strengthen it.
I have an original later dash (thanks to Keith Durston) which I'm going to copy, and I've been meaning to get the measurements on record. Give me a bit of time and I'll post something.
Malcolm
M Type
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Cooperman
United Kingdom
752 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2018 : 12:30:11
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When I made the dash for my car I used a mahogany top of a table I brought in a boot fair for about £5.00.
John Cooper M 628 |
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Malcolm Eades
United Kingdom
379 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2018 : 13:35:20
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John,
I agree. "Brownwood" furniture is deeply unfashionable so boot fairs and charity shops often have what we need, though you might need to dismantle a wardrobe to get at it!
Malcolm
M Type
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Matt Spoljarevic
Australia
15 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2018 : 12:58:16
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Thanks for the info gentlemen
I have a Bullnose Morris which has an Ash Dashboard (now I'm questioning it's authenticity also) so I presumed the M-Type's dash would have been the same timber, hence buying the Ash.
Ironically it was harder for me to track down the Ash here, than it is to get Mahogany and i have already have a 10" x 1" piece of seasoned Mahogany waiting for me to collect from a furniture grade timber supplier I use. I'm picking it up tomorrow and then having it dressed down to 1/2".
I did do a search for dash info prior to this post, but I didn't click on the archive option .. I'm having a look through now to see what I can find
Below is my current dash and gauge configuration, I was told that a previous owner replaced the gauges that were in the car with the current white faced replicas. From what I have read previously on the boards here, and now confirmed by Malcolm above, I believe these should be black faced (car 2M3440), and more so the speedo is definitely not reading anywhere near correct. I don't expect to find the gauges quickly, and have resigned myself to there being a good chance of never finding the correct Speedo, but my wife does say I'm stubborn and I need to at least look and ask :)
I am fairly confident the size and shape of this dash in incorrect, so I would prefer not to use it as a guide for the new replacement
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PeterL
United Kingdom
1709 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2018 : 14:34:39
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My little crib tells me the PCN at 2100 tpmis correct for the M
and the PC has the same ration.
I wonder what you have?
the rest of my list says:
MN 2080 turns per mile F Type
PC 2100 tpm
PCN 2100 tpm M
A and N 3360 tpm
PN (Austin Ten for example) 2240 tpm D
As yours misreads badly it is possibly an A or N but If it is an MN I would be very interested!!!
Cheers
P
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Malcolm Eades
United Kingdom
379 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2018 : 17:55:11
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Matt,
Below is an image that I have generated by drawing round the dash, full size. I have not added dimensions to avoid cluttering it up, but relevant measurements are listed below that should let you reproduce the drawing.
In photographing the image, I seem to have introduced a slight keystone effect, because the sides slope inwards more than the image suggests. I have included a dimension to demonstrate this. The slope is about 2deg off vertical.
If the central cut-out looks a bit irregular, that is how it has been cut! (No doubt by a man anxious to reach his day's output target!).
The dotted line at the bottom shows where a moulding on the bottom edge begins. A cross-section of the moulding is shown bottom left.
Dimensions:
Overall width 32 5/16th" Height at centre line: 8 3/4" (to notional high point in the centre of the top cut-out).
Width at 5" up from bottom edge: 31 13/16"
Width of glove-box hole: 5 7/8" Height of glove-box hole: 4 1/8"
Width of instrument cut-out: 9 1/4" Height of instrument cut-out: 4 3/4"
Steering column cut-out centre-line is 7 3/4" from right-hand edge. The main part is 1 5/8" wide and 2 1/4" to the top of the semi-circle. The little slot for the advance/retard rod is 3/4" high.
The top cut-out for the body frame is 1 5/8" wide by 3/4" deep.
The moulded edge is 5/8" wide.
I have only drawn the holes that I know are original:
A - three mounting holes to fix dash to brackets.
B - two holes for the steering column support bracket.
C - one hole for the starter
D - one hole for the choke
E - two holes for the central panel mountings.
There are other holes in my original part but many appear to have been added by owners. Other forum members may be able to comment on this.
I hope this is helpful but contact me if you need anything else: eadesmg(at)aol(dot)com
Malcolm
M Type
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Cooperman
United Kingdom
752 Posts |
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Malcolm Eades
United Kingdom
379 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2018 : 18:07:53
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Forgot to add that Peter is right: the speedo should definitely be a PCN working at 2100 tpm. 0 - 80 mph. It has a front bezel-mounted zeroing lever for the odometer and it is very rare. There are near-equivalents that are much more common and don't look too bad until the right one turns up (keep praying).
Your central panel looks right. If that is a cut-out in the top of your speedo, it may be the one from the 1929 panel. I can't tell from the picture.
The oil pressure gauge is a Eureka and for some reason registers to 160 psi. The ammeter is a bit special because it has stud contacts that fit into the switch panel. It looks as though you have something that fits and you may be able to get a stick-on face to convert it to black. Ask our instrument specialists (see "Suppliers").
Malcolm
M Type
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geoffw
Australia
106 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2018 : 00:01:14
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Matt,
If we ask nicely maybe Tony S. will convert Malcolm's excellent sketch into a full scale drawing as part of his on-going project to produce a full set of M body drawings. I would like to make a new dash for my M too.
With regard the type of timber, I seem to remember reading somewhere that originally the dash was American Rosewood. Would our British M people like to confirm (or otherwise)?
Geoff
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Cooperman
United Kingdom
752 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2018 : 08:13:01
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Were not the early cars' dashboards covered in some sort of rexine?
John Cooper M 628 |
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Keith Durston
United Kingdom
698 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2018 : 10:49:33
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Geoff, in answer to your American rosewood question the original dash which I passed to Malcolm Eades was I am pretty certain straight forward straight grain mahogany. I am sure that its grain was nothing exotic. The Midget was, after all, a pretty cheap car where I suspect exotic finishes were not used.
John, in answer to your comment I am sure that the early dash period photos that I have seen appear to have a Rexine covered dash.
Keith |
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Matt Spoljarevic
Australia
15 Posts |
Posted - 24/07/2018 : 23:13:56
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Thank you all for the information thus far, Sorry for my delay in replying it's been a very hectic week
Malcolm, thank you so much for the detail and measurements, its very much appreciated. I picked up the mahongany yesterday on my travels, and had it dressed down to 1/2" (One of the perks of owning a building company :) )
I also got a small start on it last night, with printing it out to 1:1 scale. The plan is to create a template in 3mm MDF from that and ensure it all fits up ok before cutting into the Mahogany. I saw the slight distortion you spoke of so I'll do an oversize template, and scribe it into match up with the bulkhead of the car, and keeping it inline with the measurements you provided
Geoff, I'll have a chat to Tony and see what can be arranged
Re: the Speedo.
Unfortunately its not the Speedo you are looking for Peter, it appears to be a modern reproduction marked as a "PC" model.
Given the information provided, it should be reading more accurately then it is. At the moment when I am travelling at 60-70KPH the Speedo is sitting around the 80<PH mark. So it will warrant investigation as to whether the Speedo is faulty, or the car has had a replacement diff or alike
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rodb
New Zealand
260 Posts |
Posted - 25/07/2018 : 02:05:50
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I saw this ROTAX dash in a shed recently. It may be for sale, offers would be needed.
RodB NZ |
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Matt Spoljarevic
Australia
15 Posts |
Posted - 25/07/2018 : 03:20:44
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Hi Rod, That would help greatly, and I certainly would be interested if it is for sale .. could you let me know once you decide if you want to sell it?
I'm happy to give you a call or discuss price via email ... matt@kayhan.biz
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Edited by - Matt Spoljarevic on 25/07/2018 04:38:31 |
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