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 MGK1 Saloon
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Michaelc

Australia
39 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  09:49:34  Show Profile
I am looking into the history of my K1 saloon RC2105 which was sold on 30 June 1934 by Sanderson and Holmes of London Road, Derby. The car had 8 UK owners until sold in 1974 by Alan Kramer together with K1 saloon BCE186 to an Australian. If anyone has any information about RC2105, I would appreciate the feedback.
Alan Kramer had a Nissan hut with many cars including the two K1 saloons.
I have several photos taken in 1974 in the Nissan hut. I can upload the photos but they are of poor quality. The photos of my car (RC2105) have been lost.
Today I am uploading photos of another car in the hut- MG 2430. Iam no expert but it could be a 4 seater K1 tourer.



















DickMorbey

United Kingdom
3668 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  11:50:44  Show Profile
Hello Michael. How interesting! MG 2430 is/was K0301, a K1 4-seat tourer which started life in Ayr, Scotland. Built in April 1933 and first registered in May of that year

Unless Peter Green has some knowledge of the car the only other info we have is from the Reg No. analysis that Julian Evers did some time ago which alas does not add anything to our knowledge.

Incidentally, the transcribed Factory records suggest that the car was originally green with green seats & interior.

Can you tell us anything more about the cars you mention - and the other contents of the Nissen hut?!

Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK

Edited by - DickMorbey on 14/12/2018 11:54:09
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kimber

United Kingdom
1525 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  13:48:32  Show Profile
I remember stumbling across the Kramer hoard many years ago. It was in a rural location near the Suffolk/Essex/Cambridge border. I had stopped for a pee and nipped behind the shed for a bit of privacy. There were a few big cracks in the doors and as I peered through I could just make out an MG radiator.

I subsequently made enquiries and did eventually get to see inside. There were 15-20 very dusty cars squeezed in there. There were several MGs and the only other one I can remember was a Hillman Aero Minx.

I was unable to purchase any of the cars but I did visit (John?) Kramer at his home in Mill Hill, London. The house and gardens were rammed full of MG cars and components. I recall buying some spares but I can't remember what.

What I didn't know was that there was a genuine K3 in there. Even so, I am certain that I would not have been able to afford it.

Edited by - kimber on 14/12/2018 13:50:53
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kimber

United Kingdom
1525 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  13:53:28  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by kimber

I remember stumbling across the Kramer hoard many years ago. It was in a rural location near the Suffolk/Essex/Cambridge border. I had stopped for a pee and nipped behind the shed for a bit of privacy. There were a few big cracks in the doors and as I peered through I could just make out an MG radiator.

I subsequently made enquiries and did eventually get to see inside. There were 15-20 very dusty cars squeezed in there. There were several MGs and the only other one I can remember was a Hillman Aero Minx.

I was unable to purchase any of the cars but I did visit (John?) Kramer at his home in Mill Hill, London. The house and gardens were rammed full of MG cars and components. I recall buying some spares but I can't remember what.

What I didn't know was that there was a genuine K3 in there. Even so, I am certain that I would not have been able to afford it at the time.

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George Eagle

United Kingdom
3217 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  14:12:25  Show Profile
What a lovely original but tired car that looks, surely our Australian friends might have a clue as to it’s fate?

Alan Kramer sounds very much the same kind of person as Morgan Marshall who lived in Bristol and used to so own quite a few cars and tons of spares. His main interest was the 18/80s.

George
L2023

Edited by - George Eagle on 14/12/2018 14:13:55
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Brian Kelly

USA
526 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  18:23:58  Show Profile

Hello Michael.

Probably you already know this info.
However:

K 0434.
Reg, RC 2105.
Engine. 639AKD.
Black/Green.

Owners. G.H. Buxton.
T. Bland.
W. Bold.

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Centric

United Kingdom
139 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  21:24:52  Show Profile
I went to the Nissan hut in the 80's. The K1 RC was still there but minus engine. I was there to purchase an historic trials car and had a large sum of money in a money belt. The car I was after was well buried behind post war grey porridge. While there two rather unsavoury characters turned up to buy some bits. They actually helped clear the way to push out the MG I was after.
Once they had gone John showed me his shot gun which was ready loaded. Apparently the two aforementioned characters would have thought nothing of whacking me over the head with a handy half shaft and hub if they had discovered how much money was in my money belt. Interesting times!
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Michaelc

Australia
39 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  22:23:21  Show Profile
Thanks to everyone for your input and Brian - thanks for your information.
I have a reasonably complete history for RC2105 (chassis K0434) including the original UK registration log book up until 1974 and the factory service record for the first 10 years or so. I was hoping that someone may have a photo of RC2105. The car was owned sequentially by: G Buxton of Derby, T Bland of Stanwick Willingborough, W Bold of Whitwell Nrth Worksop,, Motts, W bold of Peterborough, P trencham of Ruislip, D Draper of Ruislip, R fensham of Sth Ruislip and then Alan Kramer. The car was bought in 1974 by an Australian - Mr Dunsterville on behalf of its new owner. The was complete but in poor state when exported to Sydney. It had 2 owners in Sydney before I bought it in 1996.
Mr Dunsterville took about 30 photos in the Nissan hut and gave the photos of RC2105 and BCE186 to the new owner(s) in Sydney. These photos are unfortunately mislaid.
Anyway I will load the other photos. I think that one very dark photo of a rear window is of my car as it has a rare chromed after market MG turning indicator unit attached immediately under the rear window and I have it on the car today. Michael
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Michaelc

Australia
39 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  22:33:43  Show Profile




































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Michaelc

Australia
39 Posts

Posted - 14/12/2018 :  22:37:08  Show Profile
I think this photo is of my K1 - RC2105. The MG turning indicator with has turning arrows and a central lighted MG logo is vaguely visible below the window.



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Colin Butchers

United Kingdom
1475 Posts

Posted - 15/12/2018 :  10:53:48  Show Profile
I also heard of the "Kramer Collection" many years ago. I think I am right in saying that Alan Kramer was the owner of the contents of the nissen hut and showed no inclination to sell any of the stuff - said to be mainly K and N models. John was Alan's brother and certainly owned K3013 for many years and raced it at Silverstone in the early sixties. This car is now owned by our own Gerhard Maier who thsnkfully has rebuilt the car to originasl K3 spec.

Colin B.
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Gerhard Maier

Germany
863 Posts

Posted - 15/12/2018 :  17:30:45  Show Profile
Yes Colin,
I examined K3013 in Kramers shed in the seventies, and John even invited me to a test-drive, which was the most terrifying experience I ever had, as John drove very challenging to show the power of the beast.
The problem was, that only the left front brake worked!

But that was not the reason, why I didn't buy it, no it was the tremendous price of 18.000 Pounds he asked for !!

Some years later we did the deal, but don't ask me what I paid then - - - -

Gerhard
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Colin Butchers

United Kingdom
1475 Posts

Posted - 16/12/2018 :  10:41:54  Show Profile
I don't think that John was simply trying to impress you with his vivid driving, Gerhard. He was always like that. On one occasion he and K3013 passed me in my NA on the way to Silverstone. He must have been doing at least 80 mph with two pretty girls squashed in the passenger seat !

Colin B.
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Cooperman

United Kingdom
751 Posts

Posted - 16/12/2018 :  12:43:29  Show Profile
Do we know what has happened to all these delightful cars? I see a Riley and may be two Aero minxes.

John Cooper M 628
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Michaelc

Australia
39 Posts

Posted - 20/12/2018 :  09:05:43  Show Profile

KN 0386 passed through 'several hands' and is currently owned by Bob Bassica in Australia. He rebuilt the car as a tourer.





I own K1 0434. The car has had two previous Australian owners and was completely disassembled soon after it arrived in Australia. When I bought the car it was still completely disassembled but mechanically complete. Parts of the body and trim were lost.









I brought the car home on two trailers. I had to use reversed MGB wheels to move the chassis.
It was not a practical or financial possibility to rebuild the car as a saloon as too much of the body was missing and I could not source any plans. In addition the original factory file indicated that the car had (like all pillar less saloons)had experienced major body problems. However I pondered and researched the possibility for 10 years. Eventually I had it built with a K3 body using all the original mechanical parts. Michael






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Bathurst

Australia
9 Posts

Posted - 25/12/2018 :  05:12:19  Show Profile
I think Centric may have his timing a little out. I purchased the K1 and KN saloons from Alan in April 1974 with engines so the K1 (K0434) RC2105 could not have been there in the 1980s. Besides the two saloons there was at least one K four seater as seen in my photos Michael has posted above. I apologise for the poor quality of the photos but the light in the hut was bad and space limited between the cars - anyway I didn't think anyone would be looking at them 45 years later!!! On returning to London from the viewing of the cars Alan took me to a lock up in Mill Hill where he showed me K3013. I was amazed he and John had that MG as well as the Ks I saw in the Nissen hut. I remember it had a rather crude four seater body (2+2) which I thought was perculiar. It was not for sale at that time. I didn't take much notice of the other cars but the blue Hillman Aero Minx caught my eye and hence the photo due to the MG style double hump of the upper scuttle/dashboard.

Truly rewarding for me that those barn finds of the 1970s are now magnificent cars in looks and performance in their 21st century formats.
Rob Dunsterville

Rob
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