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Westbury
United Kingdom
1949 Posts |
 Posted - 30/12/2018 : 02:10:33
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Hello, everyone.
I wonder can anyone tell me when this J type ( J2749) seen here at The Brighton Speed Trials in 1946 with owner, Geoff Coles, received the front half of an NE body ?
Any suggestions would be welcomed.
Many thanks,
Chris
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3672 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 08:33:16
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Chris, this may indeed be J2749. If so, the records suggest that it had a very extensive pre & post-war competition history as a Geoff Coles special. Had NE body from '43 until mid '60s and was then sold to Peter Cranage. 'Some confusion has on occasions attended the history of this car'.
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1949 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 10:04:58
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Thanks, Dick.
The 1943 date would seem to confirm that the body came from the NE belonging to the famous and unknown Staffordshire doctor who used the car on his rounds and which was featured in a period motor magazine of the time.
It is almost certain that this car came from the Belle Vue Garages of the Evans family. The body of this car was replaced, sold off and somehow Geoff
Coles ended up with the front half.
Is there any evidence to prove Geoff’s car was fitted with the NE body in 1943 ?
Thanks again, Dick.
Chris |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3672 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 10:39:48
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Chris, A much greater authority than me, namely Mike Hawke, included a very detailed account of this car in his book '75 years of the J2 M.G.' £25 from http://www.triple-mshop.org/products-page/books/
This would suggest that the Geoff Coles acquired the body of NA0522 'which has had a slab tank body ever since'. J2749 still had the NE body in 1962. The car went on to David Marrable, who stripped it before Colin Smith acquired the car by 1966 intending that it would be rebuilt as J4003, with which it had erroneously been mistaken. The body only went to Peter Cranage round about that time. By 1989 the car was recognised and registered for what it was, namely J2749.
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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MaGic_GV
United Kingdom
868 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 11:45:00
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There is a short resume of Geoff Coles written by his son Michael in the yearbook for 2000. Details of this car are sketchy but it does indeed carry the body of an NE Magnette.
Regards,
Graham
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Edited by - MaGic_GV on 30/12/2018 11:50:37 |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1949 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 11:50:10
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Thanks, DIck.
I must get a copy from the MMM library.
I am trying to prove the link between the front half of the NE body on Geoff Coles’s car and the rear half of the NE body fitted to the Ted Lund PB special sometime in the 1940s. Ray Masters who once owned this car came up with a photograph of the car with the NE tail at a competition in, I think, 1949.
There was probably a deal done at some point between Geoff and Ted which resulted in the NE body being divided between them.
Does anyone know whether there was some sort of friendship between Geoff and Ted Lund at this time ?
Cheers,
Chris |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1949 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 11:51:46
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Thanks, Graham, I will look that up !
Chris |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1479 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 18:27:48
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A great deal of further information can be found in Pete Thelander's remarkable and well researched book on the NEs. The car owned by the mysterious doctor in Staffordshire who had an article published in Autocar on the 3rd May 1943 was in fact the 1934 TT Winning car NA0522 (JB 4750) and whilst the doctor removed the TT body from the car at that time, there is no guarantee that the body he took off was from the winning car. When the cars came back from Ulster in 1934, three were fitted with P Type bodies and ran as "The Three Musketeers" trials cars, but shortly after this, NA0517, NA0519 and NA0522 were re-fitted with TT bodies and sold to Bellevue Garage for entry in the 1935 TT Race. However, there is no certainty that 522 ended up with the body which was removed after the 1934 race.
By 1948 NA0522 was in the hands of Tom Dargue who fitted a lightweight slab tank body, which remained with the car for many years, and it is suggested that the TT body which presumably was with the car when bought by Dargue, was sold to Geoff Coles. This would have been around 1948/9 and is thought to have been the entire TT body - not just the front portion. Pete Thelander also refers to the Lund Special PB 0299 and his conclusion is that this car was possibly fitted with the TT body from NA0516 (JB 4606).
I hope that you are following this. I may ask you questions later to see whether you have taken it all in.
Colin B. |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1949 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2018 : 21:21:26
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Thanks very much for your input, Colin, your comments are much appreciated.
I have had extensive discussions with Pete Thelander together with Ray Masters in an effort to get to the bottom of this mystery once and for all !
The picture of Geoff Coles at The Brighton Speed Trials in 1946 ( sent to myself and Ray Masters by Pete Thelander ) proves that he certainly was in possession of an NE body well before T.W.Dargue bought NA 0522 in 1948/49. sans NE body( see page 138 of Pete’s ‘The MG NE Archives’ )
On page 132 of this book you will see the original NE fuel tank on Syd Beer’s NE which was removed from the Ted Lund /NE tail by Ray Masters during his ownership and passed to Syd. The blue paint from the Lund car can clearly be seen on the Beer fuel tank filler pipes. (See the Lund car in colour on page 158.)
My feeling is that Ted Lund probably obtained the rear half of the NE body from Geoff who found that it was not suitable for his J Type.
It would be of enormous help if we could show some link between Geoff and Ted during the period 1943 - 1948/49 when the Lund car was seen with an NE rear half !
Perhaps I should add at this point that I am in possession of the rear half of this body which was recently removed from the ex Ted Lund car during a complete rebuild.
Many thanks,
Chris |
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Mike the M
United Kingdom
481 Posts |
Posted - 31/12/2018 : 12:22:24
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OD 4638 was first registered to an A. J. Chamberlain of Rackenford, near Tiverton, Devon on the 19 January 1933 on an 8hp tourer!
Mike Dalby |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1949 Posts |
Posted - 31/12/2018 : 14:37:02
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Thanks, Mike.
Here is an overhead photograph of the Ted Lund PB Special (kindly supplied by Ray Masters ) The car photographed in 1959 whilst owned by Ray and who was holidaying
with the car in France!)
The NE rear half bodywork can clearly be seen in this view. Note that the point of the tail had been damaged during a previous ownership.
Chris
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1949 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2019 : 22:02:10
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Another picture, again kindly supplied by previous owner of the Lund PB, Ray Masters,
shows a glimpse of the front of the car whilst attending the 1949 Manx Cup Races in the Ilse of Man.
I am finding it very difficult to find a complete picture of this car dated to this time so any help would be gratefully received !
Cheers,
Chris
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Geoff Coles — J Type - OD 4638
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