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Brian Watson
United Kingdom
188 Posts |
 Posted - 02/01/2019 : 19:07:34
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Can anyone throw any light on the sequence of numbers used on the bodywork of our cars?
I can only refer to P-types as they are the only cars I own but I doubt this is applicable to just this model.
I have three cars - all PA - and the bodywork numbers are as follows:
P0375: body type B251 (2-seater), body number 250/129.
P0904: body type B252 (4-seater), body number 226/663.
P2093: body type B251 (2-seater), body number 1366/2114.
Generally, we refer to the second half of the number when discussing the body - it's the only number stamped on the ash of the bodywork - so my questions are:
What does the first set of numbers relate to?
Is the second set supposed to be a sequential list of numbers regardless of the prefix? (The sequence of numbers above is close to a correlation between chassis number and body number but it is not spot-on and drifts out of sequence as car production progresses.)
Does anyone have the answers?
Brian
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3672 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2019 : 21:15:13
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Hello Brian. I can answer part of your question:
The numbers are, respectively, those allocated by M.G.s and Carbodies. The transcribed Factory records state that:
In the case of P0375 the original body numbers were 200 (M.G.) and 129 (Carbodies) (Where did your number 250 come from, I wonder?)
The other numbers tally.
Carbodies was the maker of the body tuns, so it's not surprising that they stamped 'their number' on the woodwork of the tubs
P(A) production and chassis numbering was continuous regardless of whether the bodies were to be 2-seater sports cars or 4-seat tourers. It's not easy to say, without a monumental amount of research, whether Carbodies numbering was continuous across the two body types.
This is perhaps in contrast with, say, the J1 (4-seaters) and J2 (2-seaters) the chassis numbers of which were separately numbered and recorded.
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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LewPalmer
USA
3209 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2019 : 21:57:58
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A few years ago, I did started a study of various P-type chassis numbers against the Carbodies assigned numbers (the ones stamped into the wooden member above the near side footwell just below the scuttle. Although I didn't get a lot of response from P owners, it started to become clear that each model started out with a fixed number starting at some predefined fixed point. They were not always in exact sequence, probably because after they arrived at MG, they were used in whatever sequence the factory found convenient.
The PAs seems to start out around 200, the Airline Coupes seem to start at 2500. It is not clear whether the PBs followed in sequence from the PAs, but it would certainly be logical, as they vary only slightly and not in any significant way, as it relates to the body structure.
A small sample of the data collected is as follows:
PA Body Mfg Difference Model
407 397 4/26/1934 10 4
568 281 287 2
603 329 4/17/1934 274 2
1169 1561 -392 2
1801 2457 3/5/1934 -656 4
PB
331 2649 2318 2238
527 2801 11/19/1935 2274
564 2844 9/24/1935 2280
560 2915 Nov-35 2355 Airline
Lew Palmer
PA1169, PB0560 |
Edited by - LewPalmer on 02/01/2019 21:59:52 |
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Brian Watson
United Kingdom
188 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2019 : 17:01:46
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Gentlemen,
Thank you for your replies.
Dick,
It looks like we are both wrong regarding PA0375: the body number is 220/129 - see Guarantee Card etc below:
Looks like there may be an error in the transcribed factory records - as well as in my personal records... An easy fix in the Register but a new Bodyplate to replace the first replacement for me, I'm afraid.
Brian |
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RobinBarker
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2019 : 04:16:11
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Were standard 2 seat sports and 4 seater tourer PA/PB bodies built by Carbodies or Morris Motors Bodies Branch?
Reportedly William Morris asked Cecil Kimber to begin using Morris Bodies instead of Carbodies who had been MG's major supplier since the mid 1920s.
As volumes at MG increased it made financial sense to bring MG's work in house to their sister company, Morris Bodies rather than to contract it out to the separately owned company, Carbodies.
Additionally more and more Morris products were moving away from wood/steel coach-built bodies towards stamped/welded all steel bodies from Morris affiliate Pressed Steel. This shift may have result in Morris Bodies looking for work to keep their dying coach-building assembly lines busy. |
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Hugh
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2019 : 10:01:54
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Brian
O Poppe in Coventry. I think this would be Olaf Poppe, one of the senior Engineers involved with early Land Rovers. Are you able to confirm, please?
Hugh
J3091 |
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Brian Watson
United Kingdom
188 Posts |
Posted - 15/01/2019 : 11:18:21
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Hugh,
That's correct - I think he was responsible for the "ladder" design of the chassis.
His older brother Gunnar Poppe was a racing driver - his picture is in a framed collection of cigarette cards at Brooklands.
There were three brothers, the oldest of them was Erling who designed motorcycles for Packman & Poppe and Sunbeam and also Gordon three-wheelers.
Brian |
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