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 Cottingham's J4129 Original Door Trim
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MG Maverick

United Kingdom
1045 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2019 :  19:14:38  Show Profile
With the continuation of the conservation of J4129, on removal of the original trim, the attached was discovered on the top layer of birch ply...this will of course be retained.

Any ideas to the text ? Thanks.









Chris

J2353
J4129

Max Headroom

United Kingdom
292 Posts

Posted - 10/10/2019 :  23:23:06  Show Profile
That's not the usual door pocket shape for the J2 - I'ts usually an arch almost a semi-circle.

Is the other door pocket the same shape as that? Could it have been changed?

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JCB

United Kingdom
384 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  07:42:36  Show Profile
Chris and Forum:


Can not add anything on shape of card topic.
As the trim is original(factory).
They would have all manner of packing and shipping crates.
You have the mark 1 eyeball test ; would a postal address be the answer?
All the best.

John Bakewell
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kimber

United Kingdom
1525 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  07:53:44  Show Profile
When I aquired J2484 in the late 1960s it had door pockets of this profile.

They were made from a reddish fibre board if my memory serves me correctly,

When the car was rebuilt I changed them to the half moon shape.

There is a possibility I have a photo which I will post if I can find it.
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MG Maverick

United Kingdom
1045 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  08:46:59  Show Profile
Maybe this was a later ' style ' of door panel, both sides are the same and its evident that the green trim is the original, this was confirmed by Tom Wilson when he visited, J4129 was originally a swept wing, but its obvious Dudley Cottingham had adapted the car, removing the swept wings and there were a couple of strange looking sidelights fitted, with long cowls on the top. Also the rear wooden crossbar was removed ( the holes in the fibre board were filled with hardboard ) and a longer steering column ( maybe a later model eg L-type ) also came with the parts, plus a standard J2 one which I have allocated to J2353 as this seemed to be the standard car. We have nearly completed the reconstruction of the woodwork, all the top layers of ply have been removed and reapplied to new birch ply so all the ' as found ' historic information has been retained and conserved. Only the mechanical parts for safety and reliability will be ' restored ', it will be adviseable to treat the original steel and ali panels we have as they are seriously rusty and corroded, but all conservation will be treated with respect to the fact that this is an important piece of history which could easily have been lost if only the cars were restored as so many have been with the prominence destroyed.



Chris

J2353
J4129

Edited by - MG Maverick on 11/10/2019 09:00:52
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Simon

United Kingdom
446 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  14:30:21  Show Profile
I have J4199, not that long after 4129 and it certainly had/has the conventional half moon shape door panel openings in what I am certain were the original panels complete with woodworm and rot! Simon C.
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LewPalmer

USA
3201 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  14:45:37  Show Profile
Chris,

Were there any intervening owners between Dudley Cottingham and Michael Bird? If so, it world seen there was plenty of opportunity for others to make their own modifications.

Lew Palmer
PA1169, PB0560
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leafrancis14

United Kingdom
323 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  15:54:37  Show Profile
I think it's an address.....Winterstoke Road, Bristol, BS3 2EJ

(That's assuming that someone has mistakenly written '....stock' instead of '....stoke')!

Can definitely see the 'Bristol' and the letters below look like a truncated postcode.


Barny Creaser

(Wellingborough)

Edited by - leafrancis14 on 11/10/2019 15:59:03
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Orstin

United Kingdom
633 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  16:10:51  Show Profile
To be fair, I once rebuilt the door trim panels of an Austin 7 and carefully peeled back the leather/leather cloth which I then refitted to newly made ply backing...

Postcodes weren't introduced until 1959 at the earliest, if indeed, there is one written on this piece of ply..

So many dynamos

Edited by - Orstin on 11/10/2019 16:12:29
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MG Maverick

United Kingdom
1045 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  16:25:40  Show Profile
Thanks to the contributors, this gives me some more information to research.

Lew, There were owners in between DHC and MB. Firstly, MB purchased both J2s off a USA airforce pilot who was in the process of exporting the two J2s to the USA after his tour of duty in the UK had expired. The pilots wife had filled the transport allocation (of the pilot)with antique furniture and MB purchased the J2s for £50 in 1961. In discussions with MBs daughters and widow Angela, MB dismantled both J2s in 1964 to build one decent J2 out of the parts. I have newspaper wrappings on some of the parts that are dated from 1964 from a Bedford Newspaper. Angela passed on to me a buff log book with a couple of previous owner names, including MB at Bedford. Also I have some rally plaques donated by Angela, but cannot say for sure if they applied to J4129 or J2353, most probably were for J4129, but are after DHCs demise and coincidentily one is of a Brighton Motor Show in 1939, another Eastbourne I seem to recall was 195? something. Currently I am in Cyprus with no records here, I will confirm on my return end of October. Also the front page of the ' Illustrated Police News 'drawing I cannot upload to this site, if possible maybe you would oblige.Its a little unfortunate that Angela has no more information, the J2s were dismantled before they met and married and moved to Cyprus. She only recalls what MB had told her.

Best Regards, Chris





Chris

J2353
J4129

Edited by - MG Maverick on 11/10/2019 16:44:48
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LewPalmer

USA
3201 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  17:28:39  Show Profile
As requested, Chris.






Lew Palmer
PA1169, PB0560
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MG Maverick

United Kingdom
1045 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  18:31:01  Show Profile
Thanks Lew, I was told by a friend who was a senior officer at the ' Met ' that the artist was possibly an official police artist and may have taken the likeness of DHC and MEMG from police photographs taken at the scene. The post which was knocked down in the accident is replicated in the drawing, although the car does have little likeness to a J2, then the top part of the car may have been under water as in evidence the car ended up in two feet of water in the ditch, this would have been half way up.


Chris

J2353
J4129

Edited by - MG Maverick on 11/10/2019 18:32:03
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Onno

Netherlands
1020 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2019 :  19:34:32  Show Profile
So the J2 if I understand correctly
-landed upside down in a ditch
-most likely severely damaged
-repaired in periode
-gone through several owners afterwards

I think it might not be reasonable to expect that all parts are original of have a link to Cottingham.
Still a historically significant car but perhaps a slightly more practical approach might be suited.

My 2cents on the writing?
The panel is made from a recycled part of ply that previously had writing on it

Onno "D" Könemann
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MG Maverick

United Kingdom
1045 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2019 :  05:43:16  Show Profile
Thata a fair summation Onno but I think that conservation rather than restoration is a very practical approach. There are archived posts on the forum from the time I purchased the dismantled remains of the two J2s from a lady ( Angela Bird )in Cyprus where the couple had built their villa, completed in 1964. Various parts of the J2 have the correct stampings of numbers, plus the body plate, all the numbers match, plus many of the frame pieces and steel panels still have the original green paint in evidence.

Michael Bird never knew the significance of the second j2 as his intention was to use the chassis of J2 no.1 J2353, this was the earleir cycle model.

Jeremy Hawke identified J2 no.2 when he told me that the chassis no. was repeated on the bonnet hinge, he asked me if I knew the chassis no of J2. no2 so that he could check if it had competition history.

With identification of the dismantled parts, first I had to get to know the car, I deduced that the majority of the parts were from J4129, including the interior panels ( in green ), J2 no.1 was red.

I am conserving the car, rather than restoring, with Brooklands and other trials history I feel that conservation is the way to go for this historic treasure with its very sad prominence.

Photo ( 1 ) Some of the parts laid out on our villa drive in Cyprus

Photo ( 2 ) of Angela Bird in the centre with my wife on the right and Angela's friend who was staying on holiday ( at the time of purchase of the two J2s ) on the left.


Chris

J2353
J4129




Edited by - MG Maverick on 12/10/2019 06:10:40
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MG Maverick

United Kingdom
1045 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2019 :  06:20:36  Show Profile
......further to my previous post. Michael Birds two daughters in conversation said that as children they remembered both J2s on their drive, both were complete and intact as far as they could recall. Unfortunately no photos were taken/or have survived which is a shame, but back then this was quite common. My father owned an SS100 when I was a youngster, but no photos survive, it did'nt seem important at the time. Wish I had in now !!

Chris

J2353
J4129

Edited by - MG Maverick on 12/10/2019 06:21:44
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sam christie

United Kingdom
3041 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2019 :  08:21:58  Show Profile
Has anyone tried searching Winterstoke Road, Bristol, BS3 2EJ on Google maps?It exists.

Sam
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