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bloodysalmon
Spain
1482 Posts |
 Posted - 10/02/2016 : 20:00:25
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Having made a number of D-type and F-type undertrays for myself and a few others, I am now being ask to make some J-type ones.
In the past I have resisted this due to the fact that there perhaps 3 types. In the first instance could I request clarification and hopefully confirmation to what types where used from when to when?
In the 2nd may I ask/request/plea for the loan of an original tray that can be used to replicate them?
Once I have this information I can proceed to make them based upon requests received for which type ... which will be advertised on the Traders forum section.
thank you
Chris Blood (D0407 & F0753) |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6023 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2016 : 20:18:58
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Chris,
According to the Parts Lists, the J2 undertray up to J3580 is the same as the D undertray from D0351 (presumably the long chassis D?)
From J3581 the J2 used the same undertray as the discontinued J1. This undertray is the one with the recess for the silencer which is needed on the J1 to give clearance for the rear passenger floor, but which is superfluous on a J2.
So a D Type undertray would fit all J2s with the proviso that the later ones from J3581 would need to use the earlier exhaust pipe layout with the silencer behind the undertray which I think is what's offered for sale in any event. Certainly my silencer fits behind the undertray, not underneath it.
Simon J
J3437 |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 10/02/2016 20:30:40 |
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bloodysalmon
Spain
1482 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2016 : 22:26:02
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You know Simon, the clarity you have just provided is superb, thank you ... it now seems simple; I have my own D-type one to clone for J2 up until J3580 and just need a loan J1 tray then to copy to cove the full J-type range ... hopefully!?
Chris Blood (D0407 & F0753) |
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Richard Hardy
United Kingdom
2143 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2016 : 22:42:34
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Chris
I have an original J undertray if you wish to borrow it. I could bring to Stoneleigh if required
Rich
Vintage MG Parts |
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tholden
United Kingdom
1628 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2016 : 23:53:11
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I have previously posted a picture of the type of undertray used on the majority of later j2's. My original certainly came from a car earlier than 3581.I have made several batches of these in the past.Not long ago Sam posted an excellent 3d drawing done by his son based on my original. I think Steve Gilbert can supply the early style tray without the extra half moon cut out for the exhaust clamp.
TH |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6023 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 07:21:24
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This is the previous thread on this subject - http://www.triple-mregister.org/forums/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=8843
It would seem not impossible that the odd early J2 got fitted with a J1 undertray from time to time if a correct one wasn't available and J1 version was what was to hand which might explain the inconsistencies in what any given car might have had.
And of course the parts list is dated January 1935 by which time all that was on offer was a replacement part which might not necessarily have incorporated all the variations that occurred during production - it just had to fit. Hence just two types were probably considered sufficient - with and without the silencer recess.
Simon J
J3437 |
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Biggles
United Kingdom
95 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 07:33:49
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| Chris, could I put my order for one in now please. Regards, John Tinley |
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bloodysalmon
Spain
1482 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 07:45:11
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Hi Rich, thank you for the offer which I will gladly accept. I have another F-type one for you so hopefully we can do that deal with the F-type cam-cover too.
Got your name down for a J-type one John ... with or without?
Chris Blood (D0407 & F0753) |
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 08:14:50
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Hi Chris, Is there one for me also ! I need an ' early ' one if that's possible for( J2353 ). Thanks , 
Chris ( J2353 ) & ( J4129 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus. |
Edited by - MG Maverick on 11/02/2016 08:16:07 |
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bloodysalmon
Spain
1482 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 09:13:43
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Yes Chris for sure, an early one which I'm going to call E and ... L for later
Chris Blood (D0407 & F0753) |
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 09:47:06
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Thanks Chris....an E for me !
Chris ( J2353 ) & ( J4129 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus. |
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tholden
United Kingdom
1628 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 12:53:10
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I would be interested to see a picture of what you think is the early type of undertray for a J2. I know what they were like but what do you think they were like ?
There have been a lot of replacement ones made by various people over the years and most have only borne partial resemblance to the originals.
The mounting of the early exhaust suffered because of chassis flexing so the works changed to the second type of tray with the improved mounting arrangements. I think this happened quite early on and is not correctly reflected in the 1935 parts list. On one early J2 I rebuilt there was a letter on file from the factory supplying a revised undertray and exhaust mounting bracket to the dealer to resolve a problem with an exhaust that had broken twice.
Attached is pics of the modified and most common J2 undertray ( less sliding cover to drain hole ) - note the strengthening cross strips and the half moon cut out for the forward exhaust mounting. You can also see the two saw cuts in the top of the rear lip and the dent in the exhaust box section. These were standard mods to cure a couple of design issues, probably made on the assembly line, to clear the rear bracket and the cross shaft. They can be seen on most original undertrays.
TH |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6023 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 13:33:59
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The problem with using parts lists, of course, is that they don't necessarily reflect small improvements that were incorporated along the way. So a replacement undertray bought from your local M.G. dealer in 1935 would fit your car, but wouldn't necessarily be the same as the one being replaced. And if there were a number of such improvements as Terry suggests, then there can be no certainty about what was fitted to any individual car unless you have the remains to hand.
So it seems to me that the simple solution to Chris's question is to make two types - one the same as a D Type with presumably no silencer recess (?), and one the same as a J1, with the silencer recess. If you have a J2, either will do and if you have a J1 you need the one with the recess.
One can see why 'the trade' have kept things simple and just made the one pattern with a recess as it fits both cars.
Simon J
J3437 |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3060 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 17:46:07
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Please forgive any repetition but....
This picture, which was contributed recently, shows an original J2 only form (left) beside a new universal example (right) which will suit both the J1 and the J2.
The new one above could be a rationalised version of the type in Terry's picture which would have been fitted firstly to the J1.
I believe the more complicated type was fitted to the J2 after the J1 stopped being produced. The only reason I can think of for doing this is that the more complex J1 examples had already been stockpiled and the stock of strictly J2 examples had been used up.
Terry's example is in keeping with these drawings (I hope it is OK to reproduce them here).
Here is a CAD interpretation of the above beside the simplified/rationalised version.
Here is my own unfinished attempt at making one for a J2 which awaits appropriate welding.
This strictly J2 design will have no clearance for a silencer and is to the same concept as the oily old example in the first picture and should work fine to the plan below.
Sam |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6023 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 18:19:47
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If one isn't too concerned about absolute originality, and let's face it, the style of undertray isn't a major issue provided it fits, it might be worth considering adding the 'upstand' at the front. My undertray is apparently a P Type one and thus has the upstand and this arrangement may do a better job of keeping the muck out.
This does of course require the fume seal plate to be modified to fit but I'm assured that this also makes it easier to fit the rubber seal.
Simon J
J3437 |
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tholden
United Kingdom
1628 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2016 : 19:03:53
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Sam the one on the left of your picture is an early J2 one. They were discontinued in favour of the one in my picture and Octagon Heaven picture for the reasons stated. The new one shown is cheaper to produce because it does not have the exhaust clamp mounting cut out.
Why do you state that the later J2 one had been fitted to J1's ? I have not seen one like that on a J1.
If I was going to fit an early J2 undertray with the silencer further back ( which I would not do )I would look carefully at the exhaust mountings to avoid the problems the factory had.
Simon there is no need to modify a J2 undertray with a P type style upstand. The profile of the tray should follow the profile of the shield and it is easy to close the gap with either an original style felt strip fitted with staples or a rubber seal. Never had a problem with this.
TH |
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