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 Vacuum wiper and pipe on the D, F1 and J1
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sam christie

United Kingdom
2444 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2020 :  23:18:27  Show Profile
I have been looking for a clear 1930's picture of a vacuum wiper motor on the windscreen of a D, F1 or J1 and how and where the vacuum pipe was fixed to the frame.

This detail from a Kitty Brunell F-type picture comes close to what I mean but the resolution is not quite good enough.





This picture also has a similar lack of resolution.





Can anyone help with a clearer picture?

Sam

sam christie

United Kingdom
2444 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2020 :  09:00:05  Show Profile
It is a reasonable guess that the surface mounted chromed vacuum pipe on the D, F1 or J1 windscreen was connected to a rubber tube like this example on a J2 - (thanks to Peter Yonge)





I think the securing clips on the D, F1 or J1 were not screwed to the surface of the frame like the J2 but held sandwiched between the cast upright and the side of the frame. I guess there were two clips located by the screws holding the casting to the frame so surface mounted screwed on clips were not required. Sadly, so far I have found no period pictures showing this.

The tube or wire would have been on the passenger side on the D-type.





Sam
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Simon Johnston

United Kingdom
3997 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2020 :  17:41:42  Show Profile
The very early production J2s would seem to have had the external chrome pipe. This is the car which featured in the MotorSport road test article (which may or may not have been the car actually tested!) and it has external piping. Itís an early car as it has horizontal SUs, so prior to J2029





Simon J
J3437
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sam christie

United Kingdom
2444 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2020 :  20:34:35  Show Profile
Thanks Simon. That is a really excellent picture of a brand new looking early J2 complete with manual advance retard.

The clip at the top (in the picture below) has been fitted the opposite way up. This also appears to be a new car.





While the pipe and connections on these two seater screens were probably much the same as the J1 I do not think the clips at the side of the D, F and J1 were screwed onto the surface. Hope is fading for a good period picture of a D, f or J1 from the same angle.

Sam
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KevinA

New Zealand
486 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2020 :  21:41:01  Show Profile
This particular sample of the photo isn't high enough resolution but I suspect it exists in higher as a Brunell original. Would it help?

Obviously from the watermark Motoring Picture Library would be the start point





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sam christie

United Kingdom
2444 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2020 :  23:00:15  Show Profile
Thanks Kevin I think that picture should hold the answer in higher resolution. My only worry is that it looks very slightly out of focus. There must be more Kitty Brunell pictures like this.

Sam
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sam christie

United Kingdom
2444 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2020 :  09:07:03  Show Profile
Does anyone know if RX 9538 was a press car? This posed picture of Kitty seems to show the same car on the same day.





I have this car noted as F0416 and presumably F chassis numbers began at F0251. If it is
F0416 it is less likely to be a press car but a production model. Was this Kitty's own car or simply one provided for press pictures ?

Somehow Kitty never gets her hands dirty when she is photographed working on cars.

Sam
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sam christie

United Kingdom
2444 Posts

Posted - 23/03/2020 :  23:45:33  Show Profile
Sorry to return to this subject once again over what must seem a trivial detail but I am very keen to restore my J1 windscreen to its original condition but I am faced with a problem which I cannot resolve.

I am still trying hard to discover exactly how the vacuum wiper was 'plumbed' on an F1 Magna, D-type and J1. This relates only to the particular design of windscreen factory fitted to these four seaters. I understand vacuum wiper motors were standard and electric wipers only available to special order.

Although details changed over the course of production most of these windscreens (so far as I can tell) have no holes drilled on the driver's side upright for screws to retain a clip or clips for the vacuum tube. This one is typical.





Yet somehow a vacuum tube was secured on the right upright as is apparent below. Only the clip at the top on the driver's wiper arm spindle is reasonably obvious. Where I have indicated with arrows there might well have been clips but somehow secured without drilling holes.




A question addressed to the Dutch site has produced no response.

Like me Ted Hack (MG D Group) would also like to know.

Is there an F Magna four seater owner (or authority) anywhere who has the answer?


Sam
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Simon Johnston

United Kingdom
3997 Posts

Posted - 24/03/2020 :  05:28:34  Show Profile
Just a thought, Sam, but might the clips have been sandwiched between the frame and the support arm, perhaps secured by a couple of the screws that connected the arm to the frame? That would be consistent with the way the upper clip is secured to the wiper arm spindle.

Simon J
J3437
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George Eagle

United Kingdom
2768 Posts

Posted - 24/03/2020 :  10:01:12  Show Profile
L2023 is fitted with exactly the same windscreen as the one shown in the J2 photo submitted by Simon Johnston but with an electric windscreen wiper motor. The run of the wiring is held in the same clips as the ones carrying the vacuum pipes in the J2 photo.

The design is clearly an early weaker design in that it does not have the longer and stronger upright supports of the later windscreens for use in the J2s and L2s.

George
L2023




Edited by - George Eagle on 24/03/2020 10:07:12
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sam christie

United Kingdom
2444 Posts

Posted - 24/03/2020 :  10:12:08  Show Profile
Thanks Simon.

That would be a neat way to do it but there appear to be no witness marks to suggest individual clips on the example in my previous post (a J1 windscreen known to be untouched since 1958 picture courtesy of Barry Robinson) or on this example (unrestored windscreen pictures courtesy of Garry Waiting) .





On the inside face (upper view above) the mark of the frame is visible suggesting close contact between the frame and the casting.

Another suggestion on the same theme is that the clips could have been secured by being sandwiched between the mirror bracket and the support arm casting. There are some very faint marks marks just about visible (lower view above) which are hard to account for unless something was squeezed in between.

It would be very interesting to study an original unrestored mirror bracket for clues.


Sam
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sam christie

United Kingdom
2444 Posts

Posted - 24/03/2020 :  10:28:19  Show Profile
Thanks George.

Somehow the factory managed to completely avoid drilling holes on the inner face of all the D, F Magna and J1 four seater windscreen frames I have seen.

From period pictures there is no doubt clips were screwed on as in your picture on many or most two seater windscreens. But on two seaters apart from hiding the tube (or wire) within the frame, visible screws were the only way to secure the clips.



Sam
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