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 An interesting publication on ethanol
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Oz34

United Kingdom
2485 Posts

Posted - 18/02/2022 :  21:27:32  Show Profile
A Twin Cam Group member posted this today. Makes interesting reading, but I guess there are too many vested interests now?

https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2022/02/17/u-s-corn-based-ethanol-worse-for-the-climate-than-gasoline-study-finds/

Dave

Robin Macmillan

United Kingdom
415 Posts

Posted - 18/02/2022 :  22:19:08  Show Profile
Is this really a worthwhile overview of the issue …. Pressing on the home button reveals that the Storm Eunice is a fake story …. The disruption is fake . I do feel that the forum should rise above the propagation of false news theories.


PB 0527

Edited by Nick.
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Oz34

United Kingdom
2485 Posts

Posted - 19/02/2022 :  12:29:24  Show Profile
Robin, perhaps I should instead have provided this link:
https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/us-corn-based-ethanol-worse-climate-than-gasoline-study-finds-2022-02-14/
or don't you trust Reuters either?

Dave
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PeterL

United Kingdom
1703 Posts

Posted - 19/02/2022 :  13:25:36  Show Profile
The subject of how green is agriculture is very much under investigation as discussed in this article.

Drax gets its wood chip fuel from America. I am not sure if it is coppiced wood or not but transporting it across the Atlantic takes any shine off its green credentials.

The infrastructure costs surrounding the use of maize (corn) do need to be factored in and I am not sure they have been. I am thus wary.

What the inclusion of ethanol has done is to make fossil fuels slightly more acceptable in the public's eyes and put a tick in the government's actions box.

The answer probably is to reform our way of life to reduce consumption...

I hope everybody survived the storm, we are now at 1.2 deg above and rising...

Keep your MGs safe...

Cheers

P
(Green Party, Greenpeace and more recently XR!)
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PaulusPotter

Netherlands
201 Posts

Posted - 19/02/2022 :  13:31:18  Show Profile
Hello Triple M friends,

Since all ethanol is produced from corn or other grain, the composition is mainly carbon and hydrogen. By making ethanol a huge part of the carbon is elaborated during the fermentation. Not much spoken of this carbondioxyde release during fermentation.
For the production of 1 kg ethanol a particular amount of energy is needed too. By burning the ethanol about 1.3 times this amount of energy is usable in our cars.
As scientist publish.
What an investment for a bit profit is seems.
By using petrol about 5 times the invested energy is usable.
As using corn for fuel has many side effects such as burning and destroying jungle, or increase of prices for agriculture land in many counties. More farmland going to huge multi national companies.
For sure it does not solve our energy problem. As all carbon is only reclycled.

Storing carbon in trees and storing water in trees would at least improve the climate situation. As the carbondioxyde is stored for decades and the side effect is that water is stored in huge amounts in the trees. The trees store water and regulate the evaporation of this water.

And as we all know it is always cooler under the apple trees then in the open field.

Unfortunately still many obstacles to go in this world.
I am lucky i am not a politician to solve all these problems.

Paul
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Robin Macmillan

United Kingdom
415 Posts

Posted - 19/02/2022 :  16:12:04  Show Profile
Dear Dave,
Your point is well made, sadly I became overcome by other components of the original link.
My apologies if unintended offense was felt on your part

Robin

PB 0527
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Oz34

United Kingdom
2485 Posts

Posted - 19/02/2022 :  16:51:22  Show Profile
No apology needed Robin! In fact, had I thought for a moment, as the link was there embedded in what I originally posted, I would have done it in the first place. I did click on it and it appeared to be literally the same thing so I didn't give it any further thought.

Paul's mention of farm land problems reminds me that I think I saw a year or so ago, a report of subsistence farmers being turfed off their land somewhere in East Africa for the production of bio ethanol.

Cheers,

Dave
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