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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6023 Posts |
 Posted - 21/03/2014 : 17:59:01
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Prompted by the splendid early style wiper assemblies that John Emmett is offering in the For Sale section, I plan to relocate my electric wiper from in front of the passenger to the middle of the screen, i.e. in the position that the original vacuum wiper occupied, and fit a set of these wonderful looking items. But I'm curious as to why the electric wipers were generally located in front of the passenger. Contemporary photos of early L types show a centrally mounted electric wiper motor and while some J2 ones do as well, one cannot be sure if they were original fitments or substitutions for the centrally mounted vacuum device. But later L types and P types had the motor offset. Do we know why?
Simon J
J3437 |
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sven
Sweden
425 Posts |
Posted - 21/03/2014 : 21:04:02
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Hi Simon
One never "knows" but there is evidence by pictures that the L2 had a central wiper motor and the L1 had a passenger side mounted motor. Both where electrical by then.
Regards
Sven with L2039 and L0671 |
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LewPalmer
USA
3221 Posts |
Posted - 21/03/2014 : 21:13:22
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Perhaps cost, as there is no need for an additional idler. Perhaps convenience, as it is closer (?) for the passenger to reach.
But perhaps it was a (non) safety issue, so as to provide one more item to inflict harm - ready to bonk the passenger on the head, along with 15 gallons of fuel hanging off the back of the car ready to burst unto flames when hit, and the tin foil over matchstick body structure.
What could go wrong? <grin>
Lew Palmer
PA1169, PB0560 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6023 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 03:52:05
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The J2 Parts List reveals that the electric wiper motor was fitted to the J2 from chassis 3529 (build commenced on 1 August 1933) but the suction wiper continued for the 4 seater and saloon. The part numbers for the electric wiper (A382) and the wiper blade assembly (A388) are the same as for the P type and the illustrated P type parts list clearly shows the wiper blade assembly as being for a left hand mounted wiper motor.
The J2 Parts List also refers to three types of windscreen:
"Windscreen complete (1933, drilled for suction wiper)"
"Windscreen complete (1933, with strengthened supports)"
"Windscreen complete (1934, electric wiper with flat for exterior mirror)"
So it would seem that where contemporary photos show an electric motor centrally mounted on a J2 it is a modification and not a standard factory fitment and the switch to the electric motor coincided with the repositioning of the motor to the left hand side.
The question still is why the change of position which prevailed right up to the TD?
Simon J
J3437 |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 23/03/2014 03:59:01 |
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Ian Bowers
United Kingdom
938 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 08:23:02
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Just to throw in a possible 'wobbly', how did a vacuum wiper work on a supercharged car, ie J3? My suspicion from the one early photo of J3 3772 is that it was central and electric. But Tim Jackson has written earlier on this forum (Dec 2013) that the windscreen of J3771 was equipped with a vacuum wiper.
Ian Bowers
OD 6791
J3 3772 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6023 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 08:40:03
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J3756 seemingly had a central electric wiper motor - see this well known photo http://www.mgmmm.com/type-J-foto%27s.htm
But when the photo was taken, and whether the motor was a replacement........?
And just to add further confusion, here's what looks like a factory photo of a J4 with a left mounted electric wiper motor! http://www.mgcatalunya.com/Pics/15.jpg
Perhaps it was simply a matter of what Lucas were making available. If one had an existing vacuum motor, then it was seemingly a straight swap to fit an electric one. But on the production line perhaps the package from Lucas was simply what became the norm for twenty years, i.e. a left mounted motor with a simple linkage to connect the other wiper? So not a change initiated by M.G. They simply fitted what was available.
Simon J
J3437 |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 23/03/2014 08:41:26 |
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 08:52:10
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I am not too familiar with MGs of the period, Rovers I am and can say that the situation was similar in that cars in the same year production line could have differing headlamps, wiper motors etc.I was told many years ago that it was a case of what was available in the stores as to what was fitted..especially lucas items which were bought in.
Chris ( J2353 )
Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus. |
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Drolshagen
Germany
663 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 09:29:57
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6023 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 09:44:14
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I think there's a distinction to be made between different versions of the same item, e.g. Rotax , Lucas or Rotax badged Lucas headlights were seemingly fitted on the basis of what was available on the day, and changes to design, e.g. the switch from vacuum to electric wipers. In the latter case, the changeover point was quite specific - chassis J3529 - and thereafter Lucas supplied essentially the same wiper motor assembly for twenty years. The fact that there are photos that show centrally mounted electric wipers probably just means that these were either fitted by the factory to use up existing windscreen frames that had been drilled for the vacuum motor, or they were substituted after the car left the factory.
Interestingly the TD that I had back in the 60s (with a left hand mounted wiper motor) had a third wiper blade in the middle.
Simon J
J3437 |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 23/03/2014 09:47:16 |
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Drolshagen
Germany
663 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 10:25:30
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Hi Ian,
certanly by an electric wiper.
I think that is a very original 1933 ? picture of a J3 dashboard,
central electric wiper an the wiring loom follows to the right
of the windsreen rail.
that is the windscreen rail I have
Cheers Carl
J2 4362
L2 2036 |
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Ian Bowers
United Kingdom
938 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 11:52:41
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Carl
That is fantastic, and the first confirmation I have seen of my thoughts. The J3 3772 image is not very clear and taken some months after the car was sold, so substitution to electric drive was certainly possible.
Is there anyone prepared to suggest how a vacuum wiper can work with a supercharged (ie positive pressure) inlet manifold
Ian Bowers
OD 6791
J3 3772 |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6023 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 12:00:19
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Ian,
If you follow my link above to the Dutch site, photo 6 is as well known one of a J3 with a centre electric wiper.
And photo 4 as well.
Simon J
J3437 |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 23/03/2014 12:01:39 |
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Bruce Sutherland
United Kingdom
1552 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 12:05:52
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...."Is there anyone prepared to suggest how a vacuum wiper can work with a supercharged (i.e. positive pressure) inlet manifold?"
Ian, you just have to keep lifting off the throttle .......... bit tricky up-hill in the rain!! 
Bruce. (PB0564) |
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Blue M
United Kingdom
1461 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 12:53:09
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Connected between the butterfly and the supercharger inlet perhaps?
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Ian Bowers
United Kingdom
938 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 14:09:12
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Simon
I had looked at J3 3756, but since the dash looks well modified, I had to assume, as you say, that the wiper may also have been changed from the original equipment, and there is no date given for the image.
As I noted earlier the image of Miss Watson in J3 3772 also appears to show a central wiper, but again this was taken around 6 months after the car was delivered.
On this basis the evidence is stacking up that the centrally mounted, presumably electric, wiper was OE, or the owners tended to change them early on in the ownership.
I still think that the impracticality of running a vacuum powered wiper off a supercharged manifold was best solved with the electric version which was coming in, or was already being used.
Ian Bowers
OD 6791
J3 3772 |
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tholden
United Kingdom
1628 Posts |
Posted - 23/03/2014 : 14:14:50
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I have some original J3 works photos and they show the prototype car fitted with a vacuum motor, However the 24 hour car and others have a central electric motor. I suspect the limitations of a vacuum motor in a blown car were quickly realised and they were changed to an electric motor mounted in the same central position.
Carl judging by the rather untidy external wiring in the picture you show this is almost certainly a car that has be converted in this way.
TH |
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