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 P Type windscreen fit to body scuttle top.
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Bruce Sutherland

United Kingdom
1148 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2014 :  16:38:30  Show Profile
Request for advice, please.
I have a problem with the fit of the windscreen assembly to the new P Type body tub scuttle (Rique Llinares ash frame, Steve Gilbert steel panels):
1. The width between the triangular windscreen frame mounting feet is greater than the scuttle top width.
2. The plan-view taper of the scuttle differs to that of the triangular mounting feet.

I’ve addressed (1.) above by cutting out 10mm from the centre of the windscreen frame top and bottom horizontals and brazed and dressed back and polished ready for re-chroming, BUT I’m left with how to resolve the plan-view disparity “grinning” between the mounting feet and fore-aft taper of the scuttle.

To allow the windscreen to pivot/fold down, the upper sections of the mounting brackets cannot be twisted to get the triangular brackets to mate with the body scuttle.

As Dick Morbey has identified in earlier postings, the longitudinal positioning of the windscreen should not be too close to the scuttle ‘humps’ to allow space for aero-screens.

Is it a matter of shaping some packing pieces ………… or building-up the inside faces of the triangular brackets with brass/braze?
Have others found this problem, and what fixes have they used?

Apologies, this should be in the Technical Forum …………. Nick, please can you correct this?


Bruce. (PB0564)

Edited by - Bruce Sutherland on 12/11/2014 16:44:26

Peter Scully

United Kingdom
107 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2014 :  20:01:10  Show Profile
Bruce
I had the same sort of problem with my windscreen mounting, same suppliers of ash frame and body. The base of the triangular windscreen mounting feet touched the body but there was a gap further up. I resolved this by having brass plates brazed onto the inside of the mountings and then filed the brass to the correct curvature so that it fitted snugly to the curvature of the scuttle.
Regards,
Peter
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Nick Dean

United Kingdom
279 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2014 :  20:11:01  Show Profile
Bruce,again I had same problem with new body from same suppliers etc. I
had a 1/4inch difference front to back on brackets,so used rubber gaskets from S&V then filled in extra with Black Silicone Geocel Lead & Gutter seal from Brewers Ltd. (leave for a couple of days then trim with Stanley blade to the S&V gasket. Looks fine. Trim the bottom windscreen rubber wider to cover gap. good luck, Nick.

N A Dean
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DickMorbey

United Kingdom
3058 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2014 :  20:39:49  Show Profile
Based on these experiences and my own, perhaps it's time for Ricque and Steve to amend their drawings so that these new bodies are consistent in dimensions for the windscreen width!

Dick Morbey
PA/PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK
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Bruce Sutherland

United Kingdom
1148 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2014 :  22:51:53  Show Profile
Many thanks for your replies, I guess I'll have to do what I was dreading to do - and will follow Peter's example......I want to keep the finished chrome triangular mounting brackets 'consistent' without any obvious packing pieces adjacent to the rubber gaskets.
Thanks again.

Bruce. (PB0564)
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riquellinares

United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2014 :  08:18:15  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Sutherland

Request for advice, please.
I have a problem with the fit of the windscreen assembly to the new P Type body tub scuttle (Rique Llinares ash frame, Steve Gilbert steel panels):
1. The width between the triangular windscreen frame mounting feet is greater than the scuttle top width.
2. The plan-view taper of the scuttle differs to that of the triangular mounting feet.

I’ve addressed (1.) above by cutting out 10mm from the centre of the windscreen frame top and bottom horizontals and brazed and dressed back and polished ready for re-chroming, BUT I’m left with how to resolve the plan-view disparity “grinning” between the mounting feet and fore-aft taper of the scuttle.

To allow the windscreen to pivot/fold down, the upper sections of the mounting brackets cannot be twisted to get the triangular brackets to mate with the body scuttle.

As Dick Morbey has identified in earlier postings, the longitudinal positioning of the windscreen should not be too close to the scuttle ‘humps’ to allow space for aero-screens.

Is it a matter of shaping some packing pieces ………… or building-up the inside faces of the triangular brackets with brass/braze?
Have others found this problem, and what fixes have they used?

Apologies, this should be in the Technical Forum …………. Nick, please can you correct this?


Bruce. (PB0564)

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riquellinares

United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2014 :  08:49:19  Show Profile
I have been alerted to these comments posted on the MMM Forum by one of my J2/L2 customers . Many thanks to him for the link.
This list of comments regarding the scuttle taper on my P-Type frames
is very interesting, but also confusing. Confusing because in the thirty or so years I have been making these frames, this is the first time I have been told about the problem experience by some restorers. It therefore raises a couple of questions:
1 - Are all the comments posted here from customers who bought their
frames from me directly, or from Steve who buys my frames in kit
form and assembles them himself.
2 - Are there customers out there who bought their frame directly from
me who have experience the same difficulty?
It would be helpful if someone could send me a drawing of the screen bracket taper plan view and cross measurements front and back of it. Or better still a lone of an original screen frame

I will contact Steve and discuss these comments.

Rique Llinares



quote:
Originally posted by riquellinares

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Sutherland

Request for advice, please.
I have a problem with the fit of the windscreen assembly to the new P Type body tub scuttle (Rique Llinares ash frame, Steve Gilbert steel panels):
1. The width between the triangular windscreen frame mounting feet is greater than the scuttle top width.
2. The plan-view taper of the scuttle differs to that of the triangular mounting feet.

I’ve addressed (1.) above by cutting out 10mm from the centre of the windscreen frame top and bottom horizontals and brazed and dressed back and polished ready for re-chroming, BUT I’m left with how to resolve the plan-view disparity “grinning” between the mounting feet and fore-aft taper of the scuttle.

To allow the windscreen to pivot/fold down, the upper sections of the mounting brackets cannot be twisted to get the triangular brackets to mate with the body scuttle.

As Dick Morbey has identified in earlier postings, the longitudinal positioning of the windscreen should not be too close to the scuttle ‘humps’ to allow space for aero-screens.

Is it a matter of shaping some packing pieces ………… or building-up the inside faces of the triangular brackets with brass/braze?
Have others found this problem, and what fixes have they used?

Apologies, this should be in the Technical Forum …………. Nick, please can you correct this?


Bruce. (PB0564)




Edited by - riquellinares on 14/11/2014 08:57:39
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Bruce Sutherland

United Kingdom
1148 Posts

Posted - 15/11/2014 :  14:23:59  Show Profile
Rique,
I bought my assembled frame direct from you and took it to Steve for panelling.
I'll get back to you with some measurements and a plan view drawing of my scuttle ...... it'll take a few days.

Bruce. (PB0564)
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Richard Hardy

United Kingdom
1770 Posts

Posted - 15/11/2014 :  16:44:35  Show Profile
It may also be worth just mentioning about J2 scuttle widths as it may be a good time to double check these also.

It is not really possible to have windscreen frames made as a batch these days as the new tubs tend to be a little wider and so standard screen widths a slightly undersize. Therefore, if using an original screen then a packer piece between the windscreen supports and windscreen frame is needed, or better still is to have a custom screen made. This does not help though if you are simply renewing a tub on an otherwise complete car

May just be worth double checking the width of the J frame too.

Regards

Rich

Vintage MG Parts
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PeterL

United Kingdom
1348 Posts

Posted - 15/11/2014 :  17:14:07  Show Profile
My J3485 is original and has thin ali packing pieces so this may not be a new or even recent problem.

Cheers

P
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Peter Scully

United Kingdom
107 Posts

Posted - 15/11/2014 :  17:29:37  Show Profile
Rique
Frame and body came from Steve. As I've now modified and fitted the screen to the car I'm not in a position to provide measurements from it. However, I have measured the scuttle width across the front lower edge, where it meets the rain panel, at the same hight as the lower part of the triangular windscreen frame mounting bracket and compared this to an original scuttle. The new body measurement is 35 1/4 inches compared to the original, which might have spread slightly as it is unattached, of 36 inches.

Whilst the figures may not be accurate to the nearest thousand of an inch the difference between old and new does suggest to me that new body scuttles are narrower than the originals, hence Bruce's problem.

Peter
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Bruce Sutherland

United Kingdom
1148 Posts

Posted - 16/11/2014 :  13:09:22  Show Profile
Rique,
Measurements below, as requested.

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Sutherland

Rique,
I bought my assembled frame direct from you and took it to Steve for panelling.
I'll get back to you with some measurements and a plan view drawing of my scuttle ...... it'll take a few days.


Bruce. (PB0564)







Bruce. (PB0564)
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Cymber

United Kingdom
949 Posts

Posted - 18/11/2014 :  20:50:28  Show Profile
I too bought a frame from Rique and took it to Steve for panelling. The measurements are as follows:- front 35.5625" (although this one is not easy to measure accurately with the bonnet rest section in place) and 39.8125" at the rear.
When I held the car's previous dash panel in place it suggested that the new body is approximately 1/2" wider at that point than the original.

Maurice Blakey.
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