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DickMorbey

United Kingdom
3262 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2019 :  11:13:55  Show Profile
Just thought you might like to know that we have an all day working meeting of the registrars this Saturday (16th November).
We'll be looking at the way the database of cars and owners is currently working and considering various refinements to the way we handle the content and especially the way we interact with you, the owners.

We already have a fairly long list of things to consider, but it would be helpful if owners could let us know if there are any aspects of the database and its content that you'd like us to be aware of.

The session is solely about the database of cars and owners as distinct from this Register website. However if you like to offer any comments about the working of the general website itself, please don't hold back!

We will let you know the outcome of our session in due course.

And finally, a reminder that if any owner would like to have confidential and secure access to the database in order to access the information we hold about you and your car/s, please get in touch with Dick Morbey who will be happy to arrange things. As always we emphasise that this access will be personal to you and therefore you will not be able to see anybody else's details, nor will they be able to see your details!

Thanks,

Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK

Tristan

Singapore
19 Posts

Posted - 28/01/2020 :  19:11:56  Show Profile
Hi Dick. Tristan Howitt here - J2385. I am having trouble accessing my car registry. John Emmett tells me that you can give me access details?

Tristan
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Robert R

Austria
307 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2020 :  07:41:05  Show Profile
Hi Dick. I am having trouble accessing my car registry in UK. Can you tell me when the car registration number JD2878 with the chassis number F1164 was canceled in Great Britain and who was the last owner in the UK?





Robert (F1164)
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chapelfarmer

United Kingdom
213 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2020 :  08:08:30  Show Profile
Hello Dick. Thank you for inviting suggestions and thank you in anticipation to all the Registrars for giving up a whole Saturday to this - very much appreciated.
I did want to ask about whether a searchable list of Members could be made available? The (prewar) Riley Register publishes a labour-of-love document listing all members in alphabetical order and along with comprehensive contact details and note of cars owned. This is a terrific resource although, because it is printed - and regularly updated - it isn't the easiest to search. Apologies to RR if I've failed to spot an online version...
The reason I ask connects to recent threads about activities and a perceived-by-some (not by me) over-dominance of racing. There are lots of other opportunities to get the cars out but I've been wondering about adding something along the lines of a 'rolling natter'. We do this in a local club I belong to and it consists of meeting at one pub (or similar, or more than one), driving to another, having a bonnets-up chat and driving home. This way the cars get some exercise, we get to drive in company (re-enacting our prewar motoring fantasies) and we don't end up spending the whole evening / weekend afternoon in the same Groundhog-day conversations!
To organise this someone needs access to a list of members' postcodes, ideally with a map function (although this can be done later using online tools) to nominate starting-point locations. From there it should be pretty easy for the same person to set up email invitations. This can be done fairly informally and just needs a call to the pubs to make sure they approve.
This leads to two other questions. I'd be keen to know the collective wisdom on:
1) Insurance / MSA (or whatever it's called nowadays). Would MGCC / the driver be covered if someone was to have an 'incident' on one of these runs? Would MSA require everyone to apply for some new 'Going to the Pub' Licence? (wouldn't entirely be a surprise!).
2) The MGCC membership chestnut. It seems to me that the reason clubs like the RR can circulate these lists is maybe connected to data-sharing permissions given by members on joining. If the Registers are full of people who aren't members of MGCC (and have therefore not given anyone permission for anything), their details would presumably have to be 'subtracted' from any lists? This strikes me as a) fair enough but b) a pain in the whatsname for whoever has to do the subtracting.
Thanks again for your upcoming work and of course if the agendas are already as full as I suspect they are, please consider the points above as non-urgent in the extreme!
John

john
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DickMorbey

United Kingdom
3262 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2020 :  08:13:42  Show Profile
Hello Tristan,

I will contact you directly with guidance about how to access the area of the Triple-M Register database in which your details and those of your car are recorded.

Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK
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DickMorbey

United Kingdom
3262 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2020 :  08:20:20  Show Profile
Hello Robert

JD 2578 was the original reg of F1164 from 8 July 1932 until the car left the UK. George Eagle is the Registrar for the F types and I can see from the data log that the Register holds extensive correspondence about the car.

I am sure that George will pick up this enquiry and will help you as far as possible, but with the slight proviso that we are constrained by the law about divulging details of living individuals.



Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK
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DickMorbey

United Kingdom
3262 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2020 :  08:21:25  Show Profile
Hello John,

Time is very short today, but I will post a more detailed reply in response to your enquiry. It is 'complicated'!

Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK
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DickMorbey

United Kingdom
3262 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2020 :  09:27:09  Show Profile
Message for Tristan,

I have sent you two e-mails this morning to tristanhowittxpf [at] gmail [dot] com but they have bounced. This is the address we hold for you on the database of cars - perhaps you have updated it?

Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK
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DickMorbey

United Kingdom
3262 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2020 :  20:19:27  Show Profile
Hello John (chapelfarmer).

Your questions are straightforward but perhaps inevitably the answer is not a simple matter!

To start with your first question, the Register does publish a printed annual list recording all the known surviving Triple-M cars. It is available in hard copy from our Library

The information we publish is confined to the following:
Chassis number, engine number, registration mark, register number, name of recorded owner, country, last known owner date change, and comments.

The maintenance of the list is one of the Register's main objects. The list is not published electronically because it is important that we respect the personal data of anybody recorded in the list.

Were it to be published electronically it would be at risk of being 'web crawled' which could potentially reveal detailed information about a data subject which he or she might not wish to be made public. It might also infringe current data protection legislation - and please know I'm not hiding behind the fig leaf of DP -it's the law and the MG Car Club has strict policies about that.

At this point is important to recognise that there is a distinction between memnership Clubs such as the Riley Register and our Register. The Triple-M Register is not a membership club as such. It is of course a Register or section of the MG Car Club. The MGCC has strict policies governing the retention and use of personal data concerning living individuals. It manages personal data in accordance with the 'legitimate interests' principle of the Law. In practice this means that this personal data is held by the Club for the purpose of enabling it to further its objectives of supporting the facilities enjoyed by Members.

By invoking this principle the club is not required to obtain the consent of any member to the holding of personal data about them, but it is nevertheless constrained about publishing that data in any way that could infringe the Data Protection Act (previously known as the GDPR).

You may recall that the Vintage Sports Car Club which used to publish an occasional list of members and their cars, last did so in 2013. Publication - even in pront - has not continued largely for the reasons outlined above.

Your comments in paragraph 2) of your posting certainly appear to recognise the issues inherent in what I have tried to describe above. I'm not trying to offer excuses but there is a further complication in our own case. The MGCC is an extremely broad church which supports owners of MGs built from 1924 until 2020! Within this vast membership we don't always know who owns what type of car, often because Members don't get around to telling the Club this!


Therefore the task of reconciling two or more data sets: MGCC data; Triple-M Register data and possibly other sources of information to arrive at 'the truth' would be a feat of mind-bending complexity. That's not to say that it could not be done, but do we have the resources? Sadly no!

I'm sure the committee would be interested to hear other people's views about all of this and also to hear suggestions about the insurance/MSUK points mentioned in your para 1)

All the best,
Dick Morbey
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chapelfarmer

United Kingdom
213 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2020 :  22:36:24  Show Profile
Hello Dick and many thanks for your very helpful reply.

It does seem tantalisingly almost-possible to send an email to all members within a radius of EG 25 miles of a start point to ask whether they'd like to meet up for an informal run out. Via the forum we can pretty much access both users' locations (albeit somewhat vaguely IE by town in most cases and therefore difficult to 'plot') and in most cases email them (via the forum). Sadly though from a single-user point, collating this would add up to a mammoth task, especially since as you point out, the whole thing is constantly in flux anyway!

Hmm, seems to be another instance of laws that are designed in good faith to protect us ending up frustrating us...probably inevitable. My plan may work better via old-fashioned word-of-mouth. I may give it a shot later this year.

If anyone does have any info about the insurance and MSUK points I'd be very keen to hear.

Thanks again



john
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Simon Johnston

United Kingdom
4720 Posts

Posted - 29/01/2020 :  23:39:25  Show Profile
John,

The current MSUK rules can be found in their 2020 Yearbook - https://www.motorsportuk.org/news-publications/publications/yearbook/ - but they are only applicable to events organised by a recognised club, which includes the MGCC. If a group of individuals agree to meet up and drive from A to B for lunch and from B to C for dinner, that has nothing whatsoever to do with MSUK. However, if the MGCC (which includes the Triple-M Register) formally organises such an event then it could be classed as a Touring Assembly and could require a Certificate of Exemption. In practice 'Sunday Runs' like this are not treated as formal Touring Assemblies but the annual Register Touring Events do come into that category. But if the MG Owners' Club (wash out yer mouth with carbolic!) organised such an event, as itís not an MSUK recognised Club, it can just go ahead and do it. Your own insurance will cover you for the driving between the various places.

The benefit of MSUK affiliation and getting a certificate of exemption is that MSUK then provide insurance cover for the event. For example, in getting approval from the local Council to use Conway Square on the Ulster Tour I had to be able to show that I had public liability insurance. MSUK provided that.

MSUK have this year introduced new licence requirements for members competing in recognised club events such as autotests, scatter rallies, trials, etc. This RS Clubman licence is free (for now!) and can be applied for online here - https://www.motorsportuk.org/get-started/2020-rs-clubman-licence/

Simon J
J3437

Edited by - Simon Johnston on 29/01/2020 23:43:41
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Robert R

Austria
307 Posts

Posted - 31/01/2020 :  08:05:53  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by DickMorbey

Hello Robert

JD 2578 was the original reg of F1164 from 8 July 1932 until the car left the UK. George Eagle is the Registrar for the F types and I can see from the data log that the Register holds extensive correspondence about the car.

I am sure that George will pick up this enquiry and will help you as far as possible, but with the slight proviso that we are constrained by the law about divulging details of living individuals.



Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK



Hi Dick, thanks for your writing. I have contacted George Eagle several times, but the information is very limited.
I accept data protection and that the law restricts information given to living people.
BUT I wrote: I'm having trouble accessing my license plate in the UK. Can you tell me when the JD2878 car number F1164 was deleted in the UK and who was the last owner in the UK?

The 1st owner, Mr. F. Mann Esqre, was securely owned in 1932 and 1933 (he keeps records of it). When he was 25 at the time? Years, would it be 113 today? Year old.
The Magna F was already exported to Sweden in 1936.
Are there records of when the export was from the UK?
Information about DVLA is only for UK citizens. Not for owners from other countries.

Dick Morbey and George Eagle, I would like to research the pre-war car here and bring all the data together. In the end I will provide you with this information, but I would like to help you in detail. You can also reply directly to my email or in the forum. I hope nobody is offended when I write it like this.





Robert (F1164)
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Robert R

Austria
307 Posts

Posted - 31/01/2020 :  18:45:30  Show Profile
MG F1164 on the right side in the picture
Illustration in Norway MG Magazin as printed HUMBUG No. 39





Robert (F1164)
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LewPalmer

USA
2783 Posts

Posted - 31/01/2020 :  19:03:10  Show Profile
Dick,

Yet again, I plead for a query capability with the ability for registrars to export and (possibly) import data files.

Lew Palmer
PA1169, 2M1281
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