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 Seeking information about a picture of an MG
 Mystery Car - Brighton Speed Trials
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dadam99

United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2014 :  20:27:27  Show Profile
I have been helping Ted Walker, of Ferret Fotographics identify various photographs, but this one has us stumped...




We are 99% sure it is taken at Brighton Speed Trials.
The Lancia in the background seems to indicate no earlier than 1938.
The negative is not part of a strip so no other photos can be 100% identified with it.
However other photos in the same batch come from 1938 and 1946 Brighton Speed Trials.
Luckily I have the programmes for these, and other, years:-
No. 63 in 1938 was a 747cc MG of Ian Nickols, but this is certainly not his usual pre-war ex-King Clarke J4 Midget, which was white.
No. 63 in 1946 was a Bentley Special of S. Mond - which is certainly not this car.
In 1947 No. 63 was Curly Dryden's 749cc MG Q type.
In 1948 No. 63 was J.G. Martin's 747cc M.G.

We are by no means certain it is an MG, but the programme numbers above would seem to lean that way.

Any help or hints would be most welcome

Adam Ferrington

O.Thomas

United Kingdom
755 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2014 :  20:42:37  Show Profile
Not MG as the front springs are shackle mounted at the front. The brakes look like 15" girling rod as used on some RIleys, but axle doesn't look Riley. The exhaust comes out of the OS so its not a std pre war MG engine. All in all a bit off mystery!! Wonder what the two stubs protruding from the bonnet tops could be?? Oliver
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fivestar

Philippines
33 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2014 :  07:51:58  Show Profile
Adam,
Have you tried putting this on the TNF forum or the FaceBook British Motoring Racing History Group?
5*
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MG Maverick

United Kingdom
1045 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2014 :  07:57:08  Show Profile
I can confirm that this is Brighton Madeira Drive, I recognise the railings behind.

Chris ( J2353 )

Brighton, East Sussex & Paphos, Cyprus.
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KJ1592

United Kingdom
419 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2014 :  10:01:10  Show Profile
It would appear the car is fitted with an OHV V8 engine of some kind. It has what appear to be twin air intakes on the bonnet and a bulge in the bonnet side panel just above the 4 branch exhaust which could be where the rocker cover is sitting? Not sure what sort of V8 it could be but it certainly isn't a Ford flathead as these were side valve.

Cheers Ian.
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dadam99

United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2014 :  18:30:28  Show Profile
Thanks for your comments, gents - one or two useful pointers.
Good to confirm it IS at least Brighton.
I will report back as/when we work out who/what it is.

ADAM

Edited by - dadam99 on 08/01/2014 18:31:42
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Colin Butchers

United Kingdom
1391 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2014 :  10:48:30  Show Profile
There are very few possibilities between 1948 and 1960. If you remove several motorcycles and Formula 3 500s, you are left with Monds Bentley Special (which you have already rejected) in 1946, Dryden's QA0258 in 1947, Martin's J Special in 1948, Marr's Formula 2 Connaught in 1954, Wharton's ERA in 1955, Farley's 1098cc Special in 1956, Fuller's 3442cc Cooper Jaguar in 1957 and Sydney Allard's 9000cc Dragster in 1959. The one which sticks out as being the most likely is Horace Richard's HAR Special (not his Formula 2 car which is in the Brooklands Museum), which was Riley based and used a 1954cc Riley engine, and carried number 63 in 1953.

Please tell us when you get the definitive answer.

Colin B.
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O.Thomas

United Kingdom
755 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2014 :  10:52:10  Show Profile
Can't be a Riley engine Colin . Exhaust wrong side , unless they swapped cams side to side which people have done! Oliver
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Ray Masters

United Kingdom
519 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2014 :  14:30:13  Show Profile
Adam I suggest you put it on the VSCC forum where somebody will identify the chassis, brakes etc , if not the complete car, for sure.
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dadam99

United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2014 :  20:14:14  Show Profile
Thanks for all the further suggestions.
I have now put the photo on the VSCC Forums, and will see what they come up with.

ADAM
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dadam99

United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - 10/01/2014 :  17:07:39  Show Profile
Nigel Plant on the VSCC Forum has now identified the car.
To quote Nigel..

"It is in fact "the" Bentley Special of Stephen Mond! - A car which had nothing "Bentley" about it!

The chassis frame is from a 2 litre 12 cylinder Delage GP car c. 1925, the front axle and brakes are from a monoposto Alfa Romeo and the engine is an Autovia V8, hence the tops of two Zenith carbs that can be seen poking through the top of the bonnet.

I might have had the engine! This is the first decent photo I have seen of the car! So I am trying to get a decent copy of the other photo I have seen (which has previously been assumed to be the Bentley Special) so I can compare and see if they are the same car or not...

The Bentley Special had an ENV box as opposed to the Wilson box of the Autovia. The drive plate adapting from centrifugal clutch to solid drive was a coarser spline as used by the ENV as opposed to the Wilson splines.

Also all the rocker boxes were neatly stamped identifying which was for which set of rockers something you would be unlikely to find on a road car, but might on a well prepared competition car, and the photo does show the car to be quite well turned out.

Circumstantial, but my engine did come from a scr@pyard in the area in which the car which was assumed to be the Bentley Special was last registered..."


ADAM
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Colin Butchers

United Kingdom
1391 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2014 :  11:58:04  Show Profile
Brilliant !

Colin B.
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Lancia Chris

United Kingdom
2 Posts

Posted - 20/12/2015 :  16:00:02  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Colin Butchers

Brilliant !

Colin B.




Message Preview
Having recently joined the Triple M Forum I have only just spotted this.
Stephen Edward Bentley Schweich Mond was a friend of my fathers. My father was a great freind of his and used to mechanic for him at Brooklands before the war, when he used to race a Bentley there. Steve, as I knew him, also won a Fiat 500 race there in 1938 round the Campbell Circuit at an average speed of 42.45 miles and hour. When he died in 1955 he left his BRDC badge and the Brooklands Fiat 500 Cup to my father, which I now have. Here is a picture of Steve Mond driving a a Begot and Mazurie on the London to Brighton run although I am not sure of the date.



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George Eagle

United Kingdom
3060 Posts

Posted - 20/12/2015 :  16:17:59  Show Profile
Welcome to the Forum Chris.

I note you do not have an MG, perhaps you own a Lancia?

That is a very nice photo, judging by the Morris Minor and Ford it must be from the early thirties? The passenger seems to be downing a stiff drink!

George
Hon Sec
L2023

Edited by - George Eagle on 20/12/2015 16:19:43
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Lancia Chris

United Kingdom
2 Posts

Posted - 15/04/2020 :  16:44:01  Show Profile
This is a topic I have come back to after a while having now researched some more. This car was called a Bentley Special because Steve Mond's middle name was Bentley! he also competed at Brooklands in the 1936 Mountain Handicap winning Heat 1 first time out in a 1.5 Lt Bugatti, possibly owned by Mr A P Watson,

His elder brother Francis Mond was tragically killed in WW1 and his mother spent many years finding his grave whcih had been marked with the wrong person. See Richard Van Emden's book Missing, its well worth a read.

The photos are finds' of recent research showing the Bentley Special no. 63 in action at Brighton in 1946, and my father with Steve presumably after winning the Fiat 500 Race as they are holding the cup and celebrating!








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