| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Onno
Netherlands
1025 Posts |
 Posted - 16/09/2020 : 22:54:33
|
181 never had a Jag derived engine. Afaik it only ran a twin cam engine (with a supercharger the size of a J type engine)
135 had the jag engine fitted but I think it only ran that at Jabeke in Belgium
Onno "J,D" Könemann |
 |
|
|
Oz34
United Kingdom
2494 Posts |
Posted - 17/09/2020 : 20:10:57
|
Well Simon, you are of course entitled to your view, as I am to mine.
I have a further observation, only just noticed. The Jag appears to have a divided windscreen which would make it a MkVII or MkVIII which would thus allow an earlier date. In fact, back to the early '50s
Dave (Still convinced!) |
|
|
|
Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
5984 Posts |
Posted - 17/09/2020 : 20:18:56
|
Dave,
I too had wondered did the Jag have a divided screen as my Dad had a Mk VII so I’m familiar with the model. But given that the photo was apparently dated 1960 the actual model didn’t seem relevant. I have read somewhere that Doreen had a Mk VII (perhaps as part of her divorce settlement?) so the photo could be much earlier, but I can’t see that the record breaker type car beside it can be anything other than EX179 or its later incarnation of EX219. Even the white horizontal stripe along the lower body is clearly visible in photos of EX179/219. What do you reckon it is?
Simon J
J3437 |
|
|
|
Oz34
United Kingdom
2494 Posts |
Posted - 17/09/2020 : 21:59:09
|
What white stripe Simon?
The headrest appears to be approximately above the rear axle and its fairing terminates at the rear of the vehicle. The MG badge is much larger than that on EX179, and is immediately behind the headrest
EX179 at Gaydon similarly from NSR
The headrest is in front of the rear wheel and its fairing terminates just aft of the rear wheel. The MG badge is quite small and is some way aft of the headrest itself.
I am quite convinced we are looking at EX135.
Dave |
|
|
|
Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
5984 Posts |
Posted - 17/09/2020 : 22:27:04
|
Indeed, your first photo above is very plausible, Dave  Since the Mk VII came out in, I think, 1950, it certainly widens the possible time frame. Perhaps the event is then the1951 record breaking one? Which answers the question Geoff posed originally!
Simon J
J3437 |
|
|
|
Westbury
United Kingdom
1949 Posts |
Posted - 18/09/2020 : 08:00:53
|
Well done Dave, I think you have solved the mystery.
Perhaps the lesson here is not to depend too much on a date written on the back of a photo !
Often it has been done long after the event combined with a hazy memory result : inaccuracies. I know I’ve done exactly that on more than one occasion.
Chris |
|
|
|
Geoff.Broadhead
New Zealand
27 Posts |
Posted - 21/09/2020 : 10:10:58
|
I'm sorry to say that I do not concur with where this discussion is heading, but I greatly appreciate the thoughts of all those who have replied. It is surprising what some of you spotted in the picture which I missed! I agree, it is a Mark VII Jag., not a Mk IX as I had assumed.
Firstly, sorry, but it is NOT, in my opinion, Ex 135.
To me the rear wheel arches on EX 135 are not as prominent as those on the car in Doreen's photo. Also, the rear wheel knock-on seems visible in Doreen’s picture, but would be concealed by the streamlined bodywork on Ex 135 to below the knock-on. Think we can exclude Ex 135.
I had another look at the caption Graham Phipps gave me - it says "The pix of mom at the Bonneville Salt Flats and the championship car". 'Championship car' This comment made me wonder if it may be an Austin Healey ‘championship’ car? In 1956 AH 100/4 and 100/6 set various endurance records. The 100-6 was s/c., fitted with a streamlined bodywork and achieved over 200mph for Class D land speed record whereas a 100-4 set several endurance records.
The picture below shows Carroll Shelby alongside the 100-4 Endurance record breaker (1956) and it is the closest car I have seen to that in Doreen’s picture. Exposed rear wheels, RHD . No emblem on the 100-4 Shelby is standing alongside, but the emblem in Doreen’s photo looks more round than octagonal to me - so that may in fact be an AH badge.
Guess we'll never know for sure, but if not the 100-4 then it would have to be the September, 1959 Sprite record breaker, Ex 217 (previously MG Ex 179).This would be closer to the date Doreen has in her album.
|
|
|
|
Oz34
United Kingdom
2494 Posts |
Posted - 21/09/2020 : 23:23:00
|
I'm sorry Geoff but I cannot agree with you.
To take your points in order:
1) You say the wheel arches of EX135 are not as prominent as those in the photo, yet your Healey barely has any visible arches.
2) You state that EX135's knock-ons would not be visible as the wheels are covered. Yes indeed they are but, these covers are removable for wheel maintenance.
3) The emblem. If you look at Simon J's blow-up carefully, I think you will see the actual letters "MG" within the the Octagon.
I also repeat, yet again, that the subject car's headrest fairing appears to continue right to the rear of the body, as does that on EX135. As with EX179/217, you Healey's headrest terminates a long way forward.
Finally, if you look carefully, in front of the headrest you see, not a sports car type cockpit, but the opening revealed on EX135, and similar cars, when the windscreen/cockpit cover is removed for the driver to get in or out.
Dave |
Edited by - Oz34 on 21/09/2020 23:25:07 |
|
|
|
Geoff.Broadhead
New Zealand
27 Posts |
Posted - 22/09/2020 : 09:31:26
|
Dave, I have to admit the more I look into this the more I think you maybe right. I had been trying to find a record breaking MG (or AH) that aligned with the date in Doreen's album - 1959 or 1960. I was reasonably sure it was Ex 219 as Simon suggested, or an AH., but if I ignore Doreen's reference in her album to the date, everything else seems to point to Ex 135 in either 1951 or 1952.
Estimating the age of women is, perhaps, fraught with more danger than trying to identify which MG we are looking at but, for a guess, Doreen looks around 36 years old in the picture (that would be year 1952) - she would have been 44 in 1960. Not a very reliable way to date an MG photo but......!! |
|
|
|
MGCGTV874on
United Kingdom
1 Posts |
|
|
Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
5984 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2020 : 20:31:30
|
Definitely the Mk VII! Well done Peter.
Simon J
J3437 |
|
|
|
Geoff.Broadhead
New Zealand
27 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2020 : 21:57:47
|
Thanks for the feedback Peter. You have confirmed Dave's earlier assertions that it was Ex 135.
Interesting video clip of the record breaking attempt. Did you notice the trailer they were using to transport the record breaking car? Doubt it would get a WOF (MOT) cert! And how many race or record breaking drivers do you see getting into their car but immediately before doing so, hand over their walking stick! Goldie was a brave man!! |
|
|
|
Oz34
United Kingdom
2494 Posts |
Posted - 14/10/2020 : 08:45:19
|
Thanks also from me Peter. It's nice to be vindicated.
I also thought the film clip was fascinating. One of the things that really got me was seeing a record breaker literally on the street, with Mom & Dad's car going past.
Dave |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Doreen Evans - when was this picture taken?
Forum Locked
