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Andy Rogers
United Kingdom
302 Posts |
 Posted - 29/07/2018 : 10:01:03
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Can anyone help me please ?
I am the current owner of N chassis number 822 and am trying to establish its entitlement to the registration MG 4321 and the whereabouts of its log book/V5.
The Triple M Register has been very helpful and have authenticated my chassis and acknowledged that it is definitely the original N822, but unfortunately I haven't got its log book (even an old one) and the chassis file is missing so I haven't got absolute proof of its original registration.
According to copies of the Register N0822 was always recorded with the registration MG 4321. In 1986 it was registered under Kjell Karlsson with a note stating that 'Karlsson has the log book', but the car eventually ended up with the Kidder family, from whom I bought the car (in bits) in 2013 but without a log book. At some stage in between it also appeared as in the ownership of R.S.Saville.
And just to add to the confusion there is a picture of a very attractive NB sporting the registration MG 4321 in the book 'The MG Collection - the Pre War Models' p135, with the ownership attributed to Ron Saville - and this was whilst in a dismantled state in the clear ownership of the Kidders !
Can anyone therefore help me/the Register track down any history or documentation that will prove to the DVLA that N0822's legitimate registration is MG 4321 ? Or failing that give me ideas as to how I might proceed from here ?
NB:
I have tried the Kithead Trust - no joy
I have tried the DVLA - no help at all and quite obstructive !
In frustration and thanks in anticipation
Andy Rogers |
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davies
United Kingdom
699 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2018 : 10:33:23
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| have you spoken to Ron Saville's son John?? -Rich |
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Andy Rogers
United Kingdom
302 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2018 : 18:01:01
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Hi Rich -
Yes, I have, but he was quite reluctant to help and only replied that his car was stamped N822, when (unless there are two chassis stamped the same - likely ??) mine is 100% original, so I suggest John’s isn’t 822. Maybe he only looked at the guarantee plate, which we all know is easily transferable.
Andy Rogers |
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KJ1592
United Kingdom
451 Posts |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3672 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2018 : 21:39:00
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Hello Andy,
A quick comment, which I am sure you will take in the right spirit - but I just need to remind everyone that the Triple-M Register does not 'authenticate' chassis or cars - our published Guidelines have made this very clear for many years.
Nevertheless - and based on the information and evidence received - I think all concerned can be pretty sure that your car can be regarded as NA0822 and that is how it is recorded in our Listing of Cars.
Sorry if the above sounds a bit deadhanded, or perhaps rather like splitting hairs .....
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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Andy Rogers
United Kingdom
302 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2018 : 23:26:21
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Thanks for this Ian. I will get the article and see if it tells me anything.
Cheers
Andy Rogers |
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Andy Rogers
United Kingdom
302 Posts |
Posted - 29/07/2018 : 23:45:23
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Dick -
I took this extract from a letter to me from George Eagle to imply “authentication” by the Car Club/Register - or am I mistaken ?
“ I am contacting you in my role as sub-Registrar for the F/L/N types. We have all looked at the chassis stamping you have submitted and accept it is the original for NA0822. As such the car can be accepted under rule 3.1.1 of the Guidelines for Register listing. The Guidelines are printed in the front of the printed version of the Triple-M Register as well as on our Triple-M Register web site.”
Also I thought that was one of things that the Club would do for owners who are trying to establish an identity with the DVLA - or am I wrong again ?
Let me be clear I am not trying to get at the Club or the Register - all I ever wanted was their support (which I felt I had got) and when I was told that Robin Hamblett had actually inspected the chassis and confirmed it had an original stamping then I interpreted that as ‘authentication’
Please don’t let this simple plea for help get bogged down in semantics and bureaucracy. I mean no offence and do not want to step on any sensitive toes. All I am asking is for help from fellow MG afficianadoes in my quest.
In all innocence ....
Andy Rogers |
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Andy Rogers
United Kingdom
302 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2018 : 02:12:35
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PS Ian - I did contact W-W-W but he said the DVLA had even closed the door on him now !
Andy Rogers |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3672 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2018 : 06:35:50
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That's quite all right, Andy - George's statement in his letter speaks for itself in explaining the basis on which the Register was and is happy to include your car on the Listing of Cars AKA the Register. My comments in my previous posting related to the use of the 'A' word. That is because the Register is not and never has been an authentication agency. Therefore, and to quote our Guidelines, (see http://www.triple-mregister.org/registerlogin.asp )
2. OPERATION & MAINTENANCE OF THE REGISTER LISTING
The Register Listing is a compilation of information kept for the Register's own purposes. It is maintained and published for general information only and does not confer authenticity. The list includes surviving complete cars and cars that contain only some components originally supplied by the MG Car Company. The inclusion or exclusion of any particular car or specification is at the sole discretion of The Register Committee (the Committee). Although care is taken in accepting cars for inclusion in the listing it is not possible to scrutinise every entry, nor is it possible to verify the accuracy of the information the Register receives to compile and update the Listing. Neither the Committee, nor the MGCC accepts any responsibility or liability for the accuracy or authenticity of the information in the Listing.
None of the above should be taken to mean that we won't assist any owner who has 'issues' relating to their car. We are here to help and do so very regularly!
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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PaulusPotter
Netherlands
202 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2018 : 09:28:49
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Hello Andy,
The article from Enjoying MG is also incorporated in Richard Monks book “The MG Collection” for pre war cars.
But the article only refers to the owner as being Ron Saville. There is no lead on chassisnumber or indentity in this article of any kind.
Paul |
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Andy Rogers
United Kingdom
302 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2018 : 14:17:46
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Thanks Paul. That’s £2.99 wasted !
Andy Rogers |
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John James
United Kingdom
960 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2018 : 10:46:08
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I’ve been assisting Andy as a follow up to his post on 29/07/18, i.e.:
“According to copies of the Register, N0822 was always recorded with the registration MG 4321. In 1986 it was registered under Kjell Karlsson with a note stating that 'Karlsson has the log book', but the car eventually ended up with the Kidder family, from whom I bought the car (in bits) in 2013 but without a log book. At some stage in between it also appeared as in the ownership of R.S.Saville.
And just to add to the confusion there is a picture of a very attractive NB sporting the registration MG 4321 in the book 'The MG Collection - the Pre War Models' p135, with the ownership attributed to Ron Saville - and this was whilst in a dismantled state in the clear ownership of the Kidders !”
It seems that 0822 has never existed in Sweden. It was apparently incorrectly recorded by the Swedish Authorities as 0822 when it should have been recorded as 0882.
0882 was originally bought by Arne Widman in Sweden to use with 0975 as the latter chassis had been lightened to such an extent (holes drilled) that there was concern about its safety.
Christer Lundberg (spelling of surname seen elsewhere as Lungren, but Lundberg is the correct spelling) acquired both 0882 and 0975. It seems that 0975 is sitting on the chassis of 0882.
There is no record in Sweden of Kjell Karlsson owning an N-type (he has an MGB).
The Guarantee plate affixed to the car which bore the registration mark MG 4321 was “Car No. NA / 0645 Engine No. 900 AN” when the picture was taken in 1986 for the Enjoying MG article. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that it still carries this Guarantee plate but what is its chassis stamping?
There are good grounds to go to the Independent Complaints Assessor about DVLA’s handling of Andy’s attempts to secure the registration mark MG 4321 for his chassis no. 0822.
JOHN JAMES DVLA Representative, MG Octagon Car Club
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3230 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2018 : 11:07:58
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The Triple-M Register does not hold any information at all on NA0645 but the factory file does show engine number 900 AN and the original Registration number to have been TJ 9033. The car was a 4 seater to Lancashire Police spec and was Registered on 16th March 1935.
George
Registrar F/L/N types. |
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Andy Rogers
United Kingdom
302 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2018 : 15:43:32
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Thanks George. Interesting then that MG4321 is included on the Register as 0822 !
Andy Rogers |
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