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Dan F
USA
838 Posts |
 Posted - 04/12/2010 : 12:29:09
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I am wondering what has become of the Q and R type MMM ??? Does anyone have one there using ?? I assume, like other MMM, there are bits and pieces around. Any frames around ??
Thanks,
Dan |
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Onno
Netherlands
1027 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2010 : 12:41:18
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May i suggets a look at the pictures page of the mmm register.
Plenty of R's and a Q.
And a trip to mglive will mostlikely see Tom Dark race a Q ( and pass A twincams on pure speed!)
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1481 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 10:44:15
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Hello Dan,
Al of the Qs are spoken for, one way or another. 251 is in a garage in Leicestershire awaiting a total re-buid. 252 is owned by a well known gent in Shropshire and he has been working on it off and on for many years. I hear that this one may well be having some more rapid advances done on it shortly. 253 lives in Germany with several other exotic MMM cars and I am afraid that it could be many years before this one is screwed together again. 254 is the Tom Dark car which was timed at 146 mph at Goodwood three or four yars ago. I believe that Tom has now sold the car and it has gone to Germany. Hopefully, it will put on a few appearances on Continental circuits soon. 255 is complete and very original but is mow imprisoned in a museum in Sweden 256 and 257 are both safe and well in Australia and 258 is in the Beer family collection. There are also a number of copies around as well, some of which have the correct sized chassis but I don't think that any have 750cc engines and certainly no Zoller blowers.
Colin B. |
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Dan F
USA
838 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 15:36:52
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Colin and Onno:
Thanks for the help. That is exactly what I was looking for. Anyone have any good pictures of the Q type showing the internals as well as the exterior ??
Thanks,
Dan |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 19:31:38
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Colin,
I think you are confusing QA 0254 with RA 0255 which has gone to Germany. Tom Dark has sold QA 0254 but I think it has gone to a UK owner, however it is still in Tom's workshop awaiting a new engine.
Peter. |
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tholden
United Kingdom
1626 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2010 : 21:33:21
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Which one was built up recently on just the back end of a chassis was that 0254 ?
TH |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1481 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2010 : 09:48:33
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Terry, You are correct in saying that QA0254 has been built up in recent years (by Tom Dark) but it is not correct to say that it used just the back end of the chassis. When the car was owned by Tom Norton in the 1950s he cut off the front dumb irons to fit IFS (and a Gypsy Major air-cooled aero engine) and therefore probably about three quarters of the chassis remained including all cross members, brake cross-shaft etc. When Tom Dark built his very quick copy of QA0254 using mostly new parts (except for the original bonnet) the original chassis still had not come out of hiding, but when it did and wss identified as being the correct thing, he acquired it intending to eventually restore it and fit it under his rebuild. This is what he has now done.
Thanks for the additional information Peter. It is not really a matter of confusing one car with another, but more a question of finding it difficut to keep up with all that is going on. Although I live only 50 or so miles from London (or Farnham Royal for that matter), there are times when I feel that I am living out in the country somewhere away from all the news and gossip. Thanks anyway, for bringing me up to date.
Colin B. |
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Chris Bucknell
Australia
107 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2010 : 11:26:08
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| RA0259 is regularly used in Australia. Have posted some video on Youtube. Currently doing some maintenance on blower but back on track soon. |
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George Eagle
United Kingdom
3228 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2010 : 18:22:24
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Hello Chris
Well done on using RA0259 - the car looks magnificent.
Can you please let us have the Youtube address?
Regards
George Eagle |
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tholden
United Kingdom
1626 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2010 : 19:38:08
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Colin - remind me to show you that Q photo I found when I saw you a couple of weeks ago.
That is interesting information regarding 0254. So I guess it should correctly be described as a replica built on an unnumbered part of an original chassis.
The Q is probably my all time favourite Triple M car. Unfortunately I have never managed to own one but I did have the pleasure of doing quite a lot of work to 0255 before it went to Sweden. It was beautifully restored by Colin Tieche back in the 80's and is remarkably original and running brilliantly - still on a Zoller - fantastic car - fantastic sound !
TH |
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John Reid
United Kingdom
704 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2010 : 20:22:32
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My Gipsy engines have an "i" please! 
Geoffrey de Havilland |
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Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1481 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 09:52:08
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To Geoffrey D-~H (via John Reid). Sorry about that. I will make sure that I never repeat my spelling error in the future !
Best wishes to all at Hatfield.
Colin B. |
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Dan F
USA
838 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2010 : 17:11:11
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Thanks for all the responses. My interest is peaked ... Anyone have any pictures of a Q type internals ?? Engine ?? Gearbox ? Dash ? etc.
Thanks,
Dan |
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David Allison
United Kingdom
665 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 10:47:54
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The works specs. for the MG racing cars are all well documented.
W E Blower's guide covers it all in quite some detail.
The Q type was built around lessons learned from the J4 which was too short and rather top heavy. The older car showed an alrming habit for accident and most of them have been involved at some time in unfortunate incidents.
The Q type was longer, lower and the weight proportioned better through the car (except at the rear where to balance things they used 2 heavy batteries over the rear wheels).
The body shape was a scaled down version of the 34 K3 body - although the fuel tank was much smaller and inside the tail instead of the tank forming the tail as it does on the K3.
The engine was basically lessons learned from EX 127 and 154 - a blown version of the P type 3 bearing 4 cylinder engine using a Zoller blower.
The engine gave the highest specific power output of any racing engine size for size until the Alfetta 158-59 after the war.
The gearbox was an ENV 75 - the rest of the chassis was developed using the stock bin.
The internals of the car were suprisingly standard MG parts, they were just built more carefully than the standard fare.
Later on the cars were all further developed by outside tuners, fitting steel cranks (Laystall) and other parts to further develop the engines once the racing shop closed.
The instrumentation was a pretty standard 1930's racing car fare - the gauges were different to previous MG racing cars with a larger faces on some of them probably in response to customer pleas.
The Q was though too heavy to be really effective and they needed a more high tech answer.
The biggest problem was getting the power from the engine to the road (they now call it mechanical grip).
The R type just took longer to develop than the factory would have wanted.
The new car was a huge step forward (probably too huge) and unfortunately the racing shop was closed down before the works had a real chance to develop the car more fully.
The necessary development work was never really exploited from outside the works in the right direction. In fairness I think too little was known about the development of the chassis until well into the 1980's.
The other step forward on the R from the Q was the gearbox - a deep sump closer ratio pre-selector gearbox was developed by ENV for the R type.
The high power output was asking too many questions of the standard pre-selector and the deep sump was an effort to keep everything cooler.
The R type was ligther and definately improved the rear end grip over the Q but the car was unpopular with drivers.
They were too used to the over stiff springing and tried to make the cars behave more like their forebears.
The lean angles and soft springing were alarming to the drivers - now of course we understand how to sort the issues out and indeed the factory had started some of this work.
Had the factory been better funded with regard to the racing shop then maybe the R type would have the same following as the twin cam Austin 7 cars.
Interestingly the Austin was a much more expensive option (plus they wern't for sale) they only built 3 and shared little or no recogisably standard Austin components.
The R types were all sold at a reasonable price and were pretty much as quick as the Austin (although the MG was more fragile).
Regards David |
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Dan F
USA
838 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 12:07:40
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David:
Thanks !! The info was very interesting and helpful !! I will check Blower for addditional info however, if anyone had some actual pictures, I'd find them very interesting I am sure. One questions...didn't the Q type also have a deep sump ??
Thanks,
Dan |
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Peter Green
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
Posted - 13/12/2010 : 18:52:32
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Dan,
If you are talking about the gearbox sump, yes it did.
Peter. |
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