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Terry Hartley
United Kingdom
278 Posts |
 Posted - 23/10/2020 : 14:40:59
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Having read the recent post by Ronald Loomes asking if anyone knows of a dash plaque for his car got me thinking about my search for the same. I have been looking for one for my PB since I bought it 4 years ago to no avail.
The car was first sold (via main agent University Motors) by dealers Westcott & Hadley Ltd 138 Camden Road NW1 and/or what looks like Gapon & Son Ltd ? Vale Royal ? The hand writing is not very clear on the chassis file guarantee card but both dealers are shown on it.
Has anyone ever seen a dealer plaque for either of these firms? I just want to know if they are out there and to keep searching or stop looking for something that doesn't exist.
Terry. |
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JMH
United Kingdom
910 Posts |
Posted - 24/10/2020 : 13:32:07
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I doubt if you'll get a definitive "they don't exist" Terry, so keep looking. Nobody could tell me (or Dad) if Imperial Motor Mart of Cheltenham ever had a dash plaque. Dealers would only say "I've never seen one". After 30+ years I finally found one last Summer & the Dealer said it was the "first one he'd ever seen" (I made sure I'd bought it before I told him we'd been looking that long lest he put the price up!
JH |
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Terry Hartley
United Kingdom
278 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2020 : 11:23:51
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Thanks for your response, Jeremy. I didn't really expect anyone to say they don't exist, unless they had gone through the self same search, it was more a hope that someone would say they do exist and they have one.
As you say, I'll keep looking.
Incidentally, does anyone else have a main agent and two dealers shown on their docs? Was it common for new cars to be supplied through such a lengthy chain?
In anticipation and hope!
Terry |
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Vitesse
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2020 : 18:16:15
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Capon & Sons Ltd are to be found in 1930s phone books, described as 'Road Transport Contractors' and based at 26 Vale Royal, York Road, London N7. Earlier phone book entries suggest they were originally 'forage merchants'. No indication that I can see that they were motor dealers.
So maybe, being 'in the trade' they had some sort of special deal to obtain it as a company car? |
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spatek
United Kingdom
211 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2020 : 18:35:04
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| My F2 was supplied by Bambers of Birkdale but most of the correspondence from the factory was to Timberlakes of Wigan so I assumed they were the main agents in fact there was a memo from Kimber saying he had seen an F2 driven too fast whilst being delivered Timberlakes and to make a note if there were any problems in fact it soon went back to the factory for a new gearbox and various other problems, in many years of looking I have never seen suppliers plaque but may be one day. |
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Vitesse
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 28/10/2020 : 09:42:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Vitesse
Capon & Sons Ltd are to be found in 1930s phone books, described as 'Road Transport Contractors' and based at 26 Vale Royal, York Road, London N7. Earlier phone book entries suggest they were originally 'forage merchants'. No indication that I can see that they were motor dealers.
So maybe, being 'in the trade' they had some sort of special deal to obtain it as a company car?
If you google the exact name Capon & Sons Ltd, you'll also find them named as having government contracts for 'cartage' with the Ministry of Works in the 1920s. There is seemingly only one reference to what may be them in the London Gazette; it's a Land Registry entry which dates to 1955 and records a company called Capon & Sons Ltd registering Dollis Garage, Nether Street, Finchley N12. |
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Terry Hartley
United Kingdom
278 Posts |
Posted - 29/10/2020 : 21:33:08
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Thanks for the benefit of your digging, Richard.
Looking closely at the guarantee card photocopy I have the second dealer name could be 'Capon' as the handwriting is not very clear but the 'Vale Royal' bit is. Anyway, I guess it would be unlikely for a road transport contractor (who occasionally sold new cars) to go to the expense of having personalised dash plaques made. So I'll keep my eyes open for a better bet option with Westcott & Hadley Ltd. I already have a good repro UM plaque so may fit that in the meantime, however, if the wait is as long as Jeremy's the change over won't be my problem!
Terry. |
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Brian H
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2021 : 14:13:03
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I have just picked up on this tread via Google as I was researching Imperial Car Mart! As I recently rediscovered the Imperial Car Mart in Cheltenham dash plaque that came with my PA. I had put it to one side many years ago as I thought it may have been attached when it was sold on by the first owner. This was because I felt the title 'Car Mart' a little less of a salubrious name for a main dealer but I was clearly wrong as they were still trading into the 1960s selling new Jaguars so I am not so sure now. The original owner lived in Hertford but worked in Cirencester, quite a weekly commute! I would love to know if they were the original supplier. Attached is a photo, which seems to be 'standard' issue.
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JMH
United Kingdom
910 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2021 : 16:08:59
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Hi Brian, Mine's quite different.
If you find that your car wasn't supplied by Imperial Motor Mart and can be persuaded to part with it, please let me know . Does the the chassis file not say? You have a rare beast there I think.
Jeremy
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3672 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2021 : 16:46:40
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Hello Brian
According to Mike Allison's transcription of the factory record for your car (PA1588, I think) it was sold through Morris Garages Ltd. Oxford. That's not to say that it didn't go through a dealer to the first recorded owner, W R H Curtis of Welwyn Garden City, Herts..
Dick Morbey, Register Secretary
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK
secretary@triple-mregister.org |
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Vitesse
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2021 : 17:50:57
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Interesting to note that the phone numbers on the plaques are different. Although this is actually reflected in phone book entries, always with the address simply 'Royal Crescent'.
The first phone book entry is 1931, with the number Cheltenham 2644, but from 1932 onwards it's Cheltenham 2065.
I guess that poses more questions than answers though! |
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mgtommm
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2021 : 18:01:31
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Could somebody briefly explain the distributor, main agent, dealer thing to this Yank? I've seen the listings in the handbooks, and note the names changed regularly, and it's strangely different than our American dealership system. Seems like many fingers in the small pot o'money.
BTW, love these dash plaques !!
Thanks tommm |
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JMH
United Kingdom
910 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2021 : 18:09:49
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Thanks for that info Richard, so my plaque may be just a bit too early for an Oct 32 car (I'll have to tell myself that they had to use up "old stock").
Tom - I'll leave it to an expert to explain the dealership/sales thing....
Jeremy |
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Digby
United Kingdom
126 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2021 : 18:55:09
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Brian, Use of the title Mart was obviously not too down-market at the time, see attached invoice from The Car Mart Ltd of Euston Road complete with Royal Warrant. This was for a SA my father bought in 1939 (T-type traded in). However, the telegraphic address tells another story: “Karbargins. London”
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Vitesse
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2021 : 19:20:13
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quote:
Originally posted by JMH
Thanks for that info Richard, so my plaque may be just a bit too early for an Oct 32 car (I'll have to tell myself that they had to use up "old stock").
Jeremy
Or maybe you could tell yourself that they retained it as an ex-directory number for use by their more valued customers. It's certainly a more elaborate piece, with the inset St Christopher and dark blue enamelling and presumably custom-made (although perhaps to a standard pattern?) The later one looks more generic and was presumably produced by MG themselves? |
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Vitesse
United Kingdom
234 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2021 : 19:24:46
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| Hmm, just spotted that the medallion is actually inscribed in French. |
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