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JohnE
United Kingdom
366 Posts |
 Posted - 30/09/2023 : 12:55:41
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The gearbox number only allows you to tie it down to a model, in this case a J, although 117 was only fitted on the models from J3574, which had an outrigger bearing on the front of the engine. Earlier J gearboxes carried 72, usual on the cycle wing models.
JohnE |
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PhilUK
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2023 : 09:43:16
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Can I throw a few observations out there as a new member still trying to find his way around MG!
The database is a great addition but I think could be tweaked to work better. By having the emphasis on chassis number, you are making it difficult to access information as most tend look for or see a registration number. This is not included when I look at the information given. As a newbie looking to buy an MMM the database is of no help. Can I suggest at least a Registration list which gives a chassis number, or if the the worry is that someone might use that information for alterior motives, then a chassis number range of for instance, J3500-600. You have to be aware, of course, that including photos often shows the registration anyway!
I would also question whether all the current information is necessary as most fields seem to be blank for a lot of cars. Past history is always interesting and as you have access to factory records why not include original engine number and date it left the factory. If dealership information is also included, that is an incentive to add a car to the database and may even generate interest obtaining copies of factory information. A searchable chassis number/engine database is also an additional useful tool which would identify where an existing engine originated.
Lastly, how inclusive (hate that word now) should the database be? Should it only contain Register cars or should it expand to all MMMs known to exist?
Looking at this from a potential new member's point of view (or even a current member that is looking to buy), a car recently appeared at auction and was posted on a facebook forum. Comments were made about it which amounted to sharp intakes of breath, wrinkling of noses and shaking of heads. Some brave soul dared to utter "chassis issue" and it seems that everyone ran from the crime scene. Now if I had been thinking about buying that car, being able to access the database and seeing that to the Register's knowledge, the chassis rusted in half in 1985 and was believed to have been replaced by an adapted Land Rover chassis, that would have been of interest. Furthermore, Eligible for Register membership? - No
Yes, I know it is easy to suggest and the work involved can be immense and time consuming, but sometimes ideas are worth looking at.
I would add that I come from the Riley world and have put together a database of almost 18,000 cars so know the work involved! |
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
5999 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2023 : 11:09:10
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Phil,
I’d heartily agree that being able to search by chassis number only is a severe limitation if the database is to serve any useful purpose other than simply being a repository of a limited amount of information. However, help is at hand as the printed version of the Register listing - available for a modest sum from the library - includes an alphanumeric list of registration numbers cross referenced to chassis numbers. But the lack of a proper search facility in the database means that even if registration numbers were included, you wouldn’t easily be able to find one.
I think, but can’t be sure, that part of the database hidden from public view does include cars that are known, but not on the Register.
It would be interesting to know what information is on the Riley database, and how is access to it controlled, if at all?
Simon J
J3437 |
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coracle
United Kingdom
1875 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2023 : 12:29:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon Johnston
Phil,
I think, but can’t be sure, that part of the database hidden from public view does include cars that are known, but not on the Register.
Simon J
J3437
It does, I have looked at the cars of mine that are not on the register as well as the one that is. |
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PhilUK
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2023 : 13:27:19
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Thanks for your reply Simon,
The Riley database didn't exist as such until I took it upon myself to start one many years ago. I decided to enter everything on Excel as I felt that was an easier platform not only to enter information but then to browse and search. You can also have different pages. Since then others have continued the work to a degree but I am unsure as to how it is stored.
I started with sets of information, basically Registration, Chassis number and Factory records although each then includes info from the other sets.
Registration runs Reg, date, chassis no, engine no, model, colour, source of info, comments. There is then another page with owners in alphabetical order with the cars they own. Previous owners appear after the car and the reference as to where that info comes from. As cars change hands, the old owner moves to the previous owners side and the new owner heads the list. The gives a continual record of ownership as declared with references of previous owners sometime dating back to the 1960s along with where those owners appear in membership lists and newsletters.
Chassis is split into the the different number prefixes and runs Chassis no, engine no, colour, reg no, reg date, source of info, dealership supplied to, date supplied, comments.
Factory comes from the fragmented records that exist which are basically invoice books for dealerships as supplied. So each dealer has it's own page. Factory has the same layout with chassis no, model, dated supplied, registration no on a page that is headed the dealership.
Other than the incomplete factory ledgers, the sources were Membership lists (although early ones didn't include even registrations) and many hours spent in Record Offices trawling through thousands of index cards looking for the word Riley.
Although laborious to set up and tweaked several times, it works well. Record Office info is by registration which is entered as I note it. I then sort by chassis prefix to enter on Chassis list. Owners are updated with every newsletter.
Accessibility is the big one and the club do not make this available online due to a fear of special builders! There were also a few that were precious about certain models, but where do you stop with that one?
It is mainly accessed to confirm information for registration application and enquiries like "is my old car still around"
I will provide information on cars that come up for sale if asked and always make a note of photos that appear or old logbooks/tax discs offered for sale.
I think the MG situation is a little more complicated not only with the number of cars built, but also the parts interchangeability with Morris cars for instance. But I do think some form of accessible information by registration would be worthwhile and may well encourage owners to provide you with more information.
One mistake that the Riley club made (in my view) was to snub their nose at specials. I understand the breaking up a "good" car stance, but it meant that everything went below their radar and they no longer had information as to what was being done. This also resulted in many parts getting scrapped rather than being offered to others and, of course, a loss of membership.
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Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
5999 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2023 : 13:52:56
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Phil,
Hopefully one of the Register members who helped develop the database will come along shortly and explain more about its purpose. I tend to refer to the printed version more often because it has that all important registration number listing which helps considerably when trying to identify a particular car.
The Register is also fortunate in having the original factory files for the majority of the cars built and these can be inspected at the Club HQ or you can buy a copy of the file for your particular car from the Club. In an ideal world, these would all be accessible online but the sheer volume of paperwork makes that a very long term project. And of course there is the question of who would have access to the data.
On the question of specials, while chopping up a four seater to make a two seater is generally frowned upon, as long as the chassis exists, it’s still accounted for, if possible, even if not on the formal Register because of, for example, a non Triple-M engine.
Simon J
J3437 |
Edited by - Simon Johnston on 25/10/2023 13:53:25 |
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Your thoughts are invited .....
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