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Rob Bell
United Kingdom
170 Posts |
 Posted - 04/11/2019 : 17:24:08
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My M is more than just a car, its an heirloom inherited from my Second Uncle who bought it in 1964.
Prior to that, it lived in North London - actually not a million miles away from where I live now (coincidence!) - but that is all that is known about the car's history, other than it was registered in June/July 1929 to Oxford Motors; the first owner was not recorded.
This has the feel of "Who do you think you are" only for cars - but anyone have any thoughts of how to track down 2M0339's history?
Advice gratefully received! I suspect it was always a road car, but who knows what kind of life it had...  |
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3672 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2019 : 17:49:58
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Hello Rob - did you mean 2M0337 rather than 0339? I ask because the former is recorded as owned by you!
Have you contacted Mike Dalby, our M-Type Registrar? (Contact details on the 'Contacts' page.)
If so you may know that the Register has the names of the two owners of the car before you acquired it 2 years ago:
Peter Saville from 20 January 1964 and
Cyril E. Veck from 13 January 1956
Sadly our knowledge from the factory file does not tell us (as you say) the name of the first owner, but the build date is recorded as 6 July 1929. It is first recorded as a blue car with blue trim with Reg WL 6564.
Perhaps interestingly, the photo we have on file showing the engine block shows it as number MG95 (as one would expect, cos that was the original engine number), but instead of the usual suffix letter 'A' the block is stamped with a 'B'.
This may be because the practice, when an engine was returned to the Works for attention which resulted in a re-bore, was to re-stamp the block with the suffix 'B' for a 0.010" rebore and with a 'C' for a +0.020" rebore.
I hope this may help to add one more piece to your car's jigsaw!
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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colintf
United Kingdom
1481 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2019 : 19:32:26
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Good luck with the hunting Rob. As Dick suggests, Mike is a good place to start for sure.
Please keep us posted with progress :)
Colin Murrell
D0285
Photographer for MGCC (LeMans Classic, Oldtimer Grand Prix etc) & MG Motor (BTCC 2012-5)
http://www.triple-mracing.com/ |
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KevinA
New Zealand
668 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2019 : 00:16:44
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If you haven't already then contact Oxford records office who hold many of the early registration records for Oxfordshire, including (I believe) the WL series
Oxfordshire History Centre
St Luke's Church
Temple Road
Cowley
Oxford
OX4 2HT
You can contact them here: https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/content/contact-oxfordshire-history-centre
Or ring them on Tel: 01865 398200 |
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2019 : 09:12:08
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Hello Rob, I research all my cars, both past and present, keep diaries of each with records of history, previous ownerships and the like, also I include time line incidents like newspaper cuttings. When i sell a car, I ask the purchaser if they would like to maintain the diary, if not I just keep it, a future owner may be glad of it further on. I have a few in readyness to pass on.
It does take detective work to find the history. My finding of two dismantled J2s in Cyprus and the subsequent history of J4129 justified the many hours of research to discover the sad story of Dudley Cottingham and Marjorie Gush which is archived on this forum.
I have found much just on the internet, The British Library ( near St.Pancras Station in London ) and the online Newspaper Archives. Kithead Trust, Car Museums, Car Club Records and even ebay/facebook .I have just written to Sir Stirling Moss to further my knowledge on the Harrow Car Club, requesting any snippets of information he may have.
Tenacity, Time and Patience...all will produce results.
The attached file records were from the Kithead Trust records.
Good Luck,
Chris
J2353
J4129
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Edited by - MG Maverick on 05/11/2019 09:36:41 |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1950 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2019 : 10:20:49
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Hello, Chris. (Maverick )
I would be interested to see whether you receive any reply from Sir Stirling Moss. He was a close friend of Lionel Leonard who owned my Lester N type from 1937 until 1951 and I contacted Stirling Moss in the hope he could let me know more about Lionel Leonard and his competition exploits with the car..
Sadly, I have never received a reply and concluded that he is probably so inundated with people contacting him that he is forced to limit or ignore such requests as mine.
Hope you have more luck !
Best wishes,
Chris
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2019 : 11:35:04
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Thanks Chris, I have taken an unusual route to Sir Stirling via a joint friend. My wife is a now retiring from her profession as a podiatric surgeon. Her very close 'pod' friend and colleague treats Sir Stirling's best friend, she said that if I put together the story, she would give to her patient for onward transmission to Sir Stirling. Some of my archived material sent includes his parents who were officials also in the HCC at the time of Dudley's official position as secretary.
If I do get a reply, then I would be pleased, I will keep with J4129s notes, but not a delivery method I can use more that once.
I do have a photo of myself with Sir Stirling whilst at the Goodwood Revival some years ago when he liked one of my rare Rovers..he was with Lord March at the time and my wife and I were photographed by the Daily Telegraph on Lord March's instructions. ( attached D.T. photo on our arrival )
Chris
J2353
J4129
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Edited by - MG Maverick on 05/11/2019 11:48:29 |
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Rob Bell
United Kingdom
170 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2019 : 13:55:53
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Thanks all! Dick, you spotted my deliberate mistake - aka "typo" LOL Ooops.
Mike has already helped with the owner before Peter. I think I tracked down Cyril Veck, but he sadly has passed away. I was a little reticent to try and contact the family, but perhaps worth a go?
Kevin, the Oxford registration office is a very good idea - hopefully I can track down the first owner that way. Did the factory register cars themselves?
Chris, thanks for your suggestions. Not a great deal I can find on the internet; I've looked at a lot of pictures of M-types scouring for registration numbers - so far to no avail. A surprising number of registrations starting WL 65xx!
I've not come across the Kithead trust before?
The British Library is very close to where I work - what vehicle records do they keep there?
Really appreciate all the advice - really helpful, thanks!  |
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Cooperman
United Kingdom
752 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2019 : 17:14:00
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Mike Dalby kindly sent me information on my M type, this was from a sales ledger of Dobsons of Staines, which showed my car being brought and sold by them on three occasions between 1930 and 1938, with prices varying between £130 in 1930 and £10 in 1938!!
John Cooper M 628 |
Edited by - Cooperman on 05/11/2019 17:14:25 |
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2019 : 18:46:28
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Rob, The British Library holds thousands of records, I use its newspaper archives mainly, just research garages, cars, people and see what comes up. You will need to join as a reader, driving licence id. and evidence of address to join.
Kithead Trust holds many records of MGs.
Chris
J2353
J4129 |
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Rob Bell
United Kingdom
170 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2019 : 14:15:57
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Thanks Chris - that'll get me going
John, it's been some while since MMMs depreciated like that! Mike doesn't have much on my car sadly. |
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gordclark
Canada
170 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2020 : 02:45:05
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Hey Rob,
I take every opportunity to continue my search for critical, missing ownership information of BPG 296 - PA 0921. Fortunately, this PA had been registered with the MMM Reg by a previous owner - W.C. MacKay., and this is the one critical owner I would like to chase down.
I’ve checked with the Kittering people and the Essex County Records office, and everything seems to stop in the late 1960s. Evidently, the records do still exist but somewhere in the bowels of a dusty archive that nobody seems interested in looking into.
Its hard to believe that access is denied to these records, as they surly must have some value to historians, the police, criminologists, etc. Perhaps if they could put a price of searching a record, they could make a bit of money. In fact, it might be a good business opportunity for a private contractor like the RAC (for example).
I’m convinced that the Essex County records hold the information I need. I just need to break someone’s arm
Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué. |
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John James
United Kingdom
960 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2020 : 08:12:18
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Hello Gord,
PG is a Surrey number. I'm not confident that the County Council will have anything, but I'll find out and get back to you. |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1950 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2020 : 11:49:43
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Hello, Chris. (MG Maverick )
Regarding your earlier post about contacting Sir Stirling Moss, did you have any success ?
Cheers,
Chris |
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MG Maverick
United Kingdom
1045 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2020 : 16:02:10
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Yes, I am currently in Cyprus. I have been advised to contact him by telephone when back in the UK. I will post a copy of the letter in response when back home.
Chris
J2353
J4129 |
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Westbury
United Kingdom
1950 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2020 : 18:16:00
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Chris, thanks for that.
Chris |
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