| Author |
 Topic  |
|
KDP529
Switzerland
11 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2019 : 13:45:43
|
My MG PA was perfectly running like a sawing machine , then
I gave it to a Garage for a service (first time, garage does new cars and Oldtimers) .
They changed the oil and oil filter. (previously a had Castrol classic 20/50W, they changed to 30 Monograde 'comment : 'we looked in the book - this is the correct oil')
Then after 13km driving strange noise (like shaking pebbles in a tin box)out of engine
Drove back to the garage comment 'sounds serious, probably bearings in main shaft'
I contacted the previous owner and restorer about his comment, he said 'unusual after an oil change', did they fill the oil filter after changing it '
I went to the garage and asked them :They asked why ,it wouldn't matter - it will fill again automatically . Any comments to that ?
PA1933 of April 1935
oxford & cambridge blue |
|
|
George Eagle
United Kingdom
3229 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2019 : 14:58:08
|
I always prime my modern type oil filter to ensure the oil pressure comes up straight away when the engine is started.
I wonder if your engine was run under load for a very short period before the filter body was full and before there was full oil pressure?
George
L2023 |
Edited by - George Eagle on 02/10/2019 14:59:01 |
 |
|
|
KDP529
Switzerland
11 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2019 : 17:20:24
|
Well I picked it from the Garage drove 600m straight at max. 55km/h, then up 300m hill where I have to go down to 2nd gear to make it then I was at home. Next day I drove up a hill 1km partially steep (2nd gear max, 3000-3500rpm) then straight road 10km max. 50-70km/h, then 1km 75km/h after entering a village turning at a crossroad and at the end of village accelerating and the rattling began...
quote:
Originally posted by George Eagle
I always prime my modern type oil filter to ensure the oil pressure comes up straight away when the engine is started.
I wonder if your engine was run under load for a very short period before the filter body was full and before there was full oil pressure?
George
L2023
PA1933 of April 1935
oxford & cambridge blue |
|
|
|
Onno
Netherlands
1029 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2019 : 17:34:20
|
Just 3000-3500rpm up a steep hill?
That sounds like a bit low in the rpm range and can usually be more detrimental to bearings than high rpm.
Really hard to say if the actions of the garage caused the damage.
Certainly when it is not clear what the exact damage is or know all the circumstances.
Onno "D" Könemann |
|
|
|
Blue M
United Kingdom
1459 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2019 : 21:28:08
|
| What did the oil pressure gauge read when you left the garage? |
|
|
|
KDP529
Switzerland
11 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2019 : 08:39:06
|
To be honest - I don't really know anymore the RPM the hill up, I drove it so it had enough power, not to low but also not to high quote:
Originally posted by Onno
Just 3000-3500rpm up a steep hill?
That sounds like a bit low in the rpm range and can usually be more detrimental to bearings than high rpm.
Really hard to say if the actions of the garage caused the damage.
Certainly when it is not clear what the exact damage is or know all the circumstances.
Onno "D" Könemann
PA1933 of April 1935
oxford & cambridge blue |
|
|
|
KDP529
Switzerland
11 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2019 : 08:46:34
|
I have to learn it the hard way ...I admit, I never really looked at the oil pressure - because I never had a problem and when it happened ...I looked under the car wether there is anything loose... and did not look at the oil pressure ... quote:
Originally posted by Blue M
What did the oil pressure gauge read when you left the garage?
PA1933 of April 1935
oxford & cambridge blue |
|
|
|
PaulusPotter
Netherlands
202 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2019 : 08:03:40
|
Hello KDP529 & All,
When I tried to start-up the L engine after rebuilt and conversion to a modern filter there was no way of getting oil pressure by using the starter motor only. So finally we discovered that lifting the rear of the car about 40 cm was enough to fill the pump and get oil pressure by only using the starter motor.
Paul |
|
|
|
Colin Butchers
United Kingdom
1483 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2019 : 09:33:51
|
The most important thing to learn Peter, is to be very wary of anyone claiming to be an expert. I have been changing oil etc in my MMM cars for 60 years and I would never entrust any work especially routine servicing to anyone else to do (except of course to proven marque experts such as Ollie Richardson !)
Colin B. |
|
|
|
Tony Dolton
United Kingdom
371 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2019 : 07:26:05
|
SAE30 monograde is what I use for running in a tight engine following a bottom end rebuild.I very quickly change to 20/50 once I'm satisfied All's well, say 50 miles driving.the oil change also removes any unwanted 'stuff' in the sump and oilways.
Never run an engine without checking the oil pressure gauge ...everytime the engine is started.
Sometimes following an oil change ,pressure does not immediately rise following an airlock on the suction side of the pump.priming the filter if the original is fitted usually works.otherwise remove pipe from pump on pressure side and squirt oil into pump.Tedious but has always worked with me.
I agree with Colin, changing the oil on our cars is simple, do it yourself or get help from a MMM friend.
I worked all my working life in a technical role for Vandervell. So many aftermarket bearing failures are caused by a failure to ensure oil pressure is adequate following routine oil changes on older engines.At least most old cars have oil pressure gauges so one can see what's happening!
I doubt its the main bearings knocking, more likely a rod bearing. Only one way to find out.
Sorry this has happened,quite unnecessary.Tony
|
|
|
|
KDP529
Switzerland
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2019 : 08:33:09
|
Thank you to all of you having responded to my problem.
I asked the mechanic at the garage which did the oil change how he did the change of the oilfilter, wether he filled it up with oil after the new one was in. He didn't say yes or no, he said ' why does it matter, it will be filled quickly when the engine is running' so most likely it was not filled (and the first km was hill upwards). I certainly don't bring my MG to that garage to fix it. I am in contact with a trusted expert in english old timers, he will have a look to determine the damage. This will take place in November and I will let you know the out come
And from now on I will watch the oil pressure each time I start the engine ...and when driving ..a strange noise appears …
Thks to all again and have a good Sunday
quote:
Originally posted by Tony Dolton
SAE30 monograde is what I use for running in a tight engine following a bottom end rebuild.I very quickly change to 20/50 once I'm satisfied All's well, say 50 miles driving.the oil change also removes any unwanted 'stuff' in the sump and oilways.
Never run an engine without checking the oil pressure gauge ...everytime the engine is started.
Sometimes following an oil change ,pressure does not immediately rise following an airlock on the suction side of the pump.priming the filter if the original is fitted usually works.otherwise remove pipe from pump on pressure side and squirt oil into pump.Tedious but has always worked with me.
I agree with Colin, changing the oil on our cars is simple, do it yourself or get help from a MMM friend.
I worked all my working life in a technical role for Vandervell. So many aftermarket bearing failures are caused by a failure to ensure oil pressure is adequate following routine oil changes on older engines.At least most old cars have oil pressure gauges so one can see what's happening!
I doubt its the main bearings knocking, more likely a rod bearing. Only one way to find out.
Sorry this has happened,quite unnecessary.Tony
PA1933 of April 1935
oxford & cambridge blue |
|
|
|
Keith Durston
United Kingdom
700 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2019 : 09:37:25
|
[quote]Originally posted by KDP529
And from now on I will watch the oil pressure each time I start the engine ...and when driving ..a strange noise appears …
Peter, I have always believed that when you "hear a strange noise" it is probably too late and the damage has started or already happened. Better to watch the gauges and any variance from what is normal or specified means something is wrong.
Good luck with the new garage,
Keith |
|
|
|
Simon
United Kingdom
447 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2019 : 16:31:30
|
| And also, it is always advisable after an oil and/or filter change to take the plugs out and spin the starter until oil pressure shows on the gauge -- can take a good few seconds. Simon C. |
|
|
|
briang
United Kingdom
218 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2019 : 22:49:14
|
Another situation arises (like the situation if you don't pre-fill the spin-on oil filter) if you disconnect the oil pressure gauge under the dashboard for any reason.
The oil level will drop down the oil pipe in quite a short time. When you connect it up again and turn the engine, there will be air sucked into the pipe, which will give a strange reading on the gauge due to an air lock. Maybe the oil is circulating, but the gauge reads zero.
If that happens, disconnect pipe again, turn the starter briefly - and turn it off quickly when oil squirts out all over your trousers....that will get rid of the air! Reconnect the pipe at the gauge.
Change trousers, hide from laughing wife, carry on running the engine to warm up, make sure pressure is normal, then you are safe to go.
Always check oil pressure is good before driving anywhere. My J2 is 75-80psi on cold starting.
We ALL hope we will never forget to check the gauge!
Brian |
|
|
|
KDP529
Switzerland
11 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2019 : 09:59:27
|
Well pity I didn't know that all before...
from now on I will keep my left eye on the oil pressure and the right on the road ...
I wish you all happy driving without any noises ...
quote:
Originally posted by briang
Another situation arises (like the situation if you don't pre-fill the spin-on oil filter) if you disconnect the oil pressure gauge under the dashboard for any reason.
The oil level will drop down the oil pipe in quite a short time. When you connect it up again and turn the engine, there will be air sucked into the pipe, which will give a strange reading on the gauge due to an air lock. Maybe the oil is circulating, but the gauge reads zero.
If that happens, disconnect pipe again, turn the starter briefly - and turn it off quickly when oil squirts out all over your trousers....that will get rid of the air! Reconnect the pipe at the gauge.
Change trousers, hide from laughing wife, carry on running the engine to warm up, make sure pressure is normal, then you are safe to go.
Always check oil pressure is good before driving anywhere. My J2 is 75-80psi on cold starting.
We ALL hope we will never forget to check the gauge!
Brian
PA1933 of April 1935
oxford & cambridge blue |
|
|
|
Simon Johnston
United Kingdom
6011 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2019 : 10:47:38
|
I really can’t imagine even reversing out of the garage until the oil pressure is up although my gauge is right in front of me rather than in the cluster panel on the other side of the dash where I guess it might be easy to overlook it. But checking you have oil pressure on a vintage engine is essential. When driving I check the oil gauge more than any other gauge.
Regarding cranking on the starter, even with a CR of nearly 8 to 1 I have no problem cranking on the starter to get oil pressure without the hassle of removing the plugs. Mind you, I do have two batteries in parallel giving 90Ah and 660CCA which probably helps!
Simon J
J3437 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Forum Locked
Topic Locked
