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Ian Grace
USA
651 Posts |
 Posted - 31/01/2021 : 19:20:44
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To help with some chassis plate research I am conducting, could any M Type owners furnish me with good photos of their original chassis plates. I suspect that there were at least two types - one for the early Oxford-built cars, and a second for the Abingdon cars. In researching Minor chassis plates, no less than five variants have been identified. Perhaps there are more than two varieties of M Type plates?
Grateful thanks in advance. |
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KJ1592
United Kingdom
449 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2021 : 20:20:42
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Ian here’s one from a June 1929 chassis
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DickMorbey
United Kingdom
3672 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2021 : 20:21:10
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Ian, or perhaps there are some repro plates out there 
Have you contacted Mike Dalby about your research. He is the Triple-M Register's M type registrar
Dick Morbey
PA-PB 0743
Frieth, Oxon, UK |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3056 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2021 : 20:54:26
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Probably a reproduction below.
Sam |
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JohnE
United Kingdom
366 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2021 : 21:01:31
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Near the last of the Oxford cars. These all look photo etched, unlike some Minors.
JohnE |
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Ian Grace
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2021 : 00:04:50
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Fantastic response - thanks everyone. Please keep posting more! Unless I hear otherwise, I'd like to put a couple of these in an article I'm preparing for the next VMR magazine.
Dick, reproduction (or bogus) plates are easy to spot. In the case of M Type plates, the /1234 chassis numbers were machine printed, in exact numerical sequence, and engine numbers and the 2 or C were stamped on the production line.
The reason for engine numbers being hand stamped is as follows. Engines were delivered from Morris Motors – Engines Branch, Coventry in lorry loads of about 20 engines per load and were then piled up at the production line. Engines were then selected at random for fitting, and the chassis plates, which were loosely wired to the radiators, were removed, stamped with the number of the selected engine and then fitted to the scuttle. (Same for the M or C, at the point of body fitting.)
A bit of background might be of interest.
In June 1926, Morris Motors Ltd. was acquired by a new company, Morris Motors (1926) Ltd., which was a public company. At the same time, Morris Motors (1926) Ltd. absorbed Osberton Radiators, Ltd., Morris Engines Ltd. (previously the French firm Hotchkiss et Cie.), and the coachbuilding firm of Hollick & Pratt Ltd. Until then all of these companies had been owned personally by William Morris. These companies became known as Morris Motors – Radiators branch, Engines branch and Bodies branch respectively. Also, on July 27th 1927, a holding company was registered, Morris Industries Ltd., to enable WRM to move funds between his companies without incurring tax liabilities and to acquire the S.U. Company Ltd.
So, from August 1926, the company name on all Morris chassis plates became Morris Motors (1926), Ltd. The (1926) was from that point included on Morris chassis plates for a statutory three years - until August 1929, at the start of 1930 season production. This was reflected on the chassis plates, where (1926) was dropped. Why is all this arcane detail so important? The reason that a car’s chassis plate must show EXACTLY the correct name of the car’s manufacturer is a legal one - because this name is registered with the licensing authorities as the manufacturer of the car and also, the name of the company shown on the plate is the company that underwrites the guarantee for the car.
Hence, if M.G. did things legally, and I am sure that they did, the change of plate design from Oxford to Abingdon (and the new Oxford phone number and telegram address) must have exactly followed the change of production location. In other words, it would not have been a case of using up a stock of the Oxford machine printed chassis plates after the move to Abingdon.
Question therefore - at what chassis plate did Abingdon replace Oxford? The more plates we study, the closer we will shall come to answering that question. As far as I know, the exact point of change has never been determined for the M Type - unless someone knows more?
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Edited by - Ian Grace on 01/02/2021 00:21:46 |
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KevinA
New Zealand
668 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2021 : 02:59:59
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Ian
I am not convinced that MG followed any need to show EXACTLY the correct name of the car’s manufacturer as strictly as you might believe.
The potential fly in your ointment comes when you study the 18/80 chassis plates. Mark 1 and Mark 2 cars were both produced simultaneously but the Abingdon Mark 1s used the same as the M types, the Mark 2s used the type Sam shows as probably a reproduction. At the same time therefore they were manufacturing and selling cars as both "The MG Car Company" and "The MG Car Company Ltd". The Mark 1 plates would have been made prior to the company name change and were then used on cars that were manufactured after the change. |
Edited by - KevinA on 01/02/2021 03:03:17 |
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Ian Grace
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2021 : 16:41:03
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| Interesting, Kevin. And I just noticed that there are three types of M plate - the third introduced when the company name changed. Do we have a date for the company name change? |
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Malcolm Eades
United Kingdom
379 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2021 : 20:39:38
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I believe the MG business was originally in William Morris's private ownership and was not incorporated until July 1930. Morris himself remained the only shareholder until July 1935 when he transferred ownership to Morris Motors Ltd.
Malcolm
M Type
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Rob34
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2021 : 13:22:04
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Edited by - mgmog on 04/02/2021 13:52:34 |
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AFM781
United Kingdom
190 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2021 : 16:52:23
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From SC8404 first registered 13 September 1930.
I am sure it is an original.
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Edited by - mgmog on 06/02/2021 22:33:39 |
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Ian Grace
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2021 : 20:57:26
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| Thanks for the additional plates - keep them coming! The M.G. Car Company Ltd. was registered on 21st July 1930, so it will be most interesting to find chassis plates for cars that were recorded as having their chassis laid down around that date. |
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PreWarMG
Australia
395 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2021 : 09:44:03
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As the chassis plate for M1524 has been lost since April 1930, where can I source the most correct replacement plate ? - any vendor in particular ?.
Thanks in anticipation.
Tony
We are here for a good time, not a long time !. |
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sam christie
United Kingdom
3056 Posts |
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Keith Durston
United Kingdom
698 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2021 : 10:50:55
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Tony,
I have just bought one for my Coupe from S&V. It is very accurate with its graphics and the number punching also looks good. It is however screen printed whereas the originals were etched. You really can't tell without getting close up.
Keith |
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Ian Grace
USA
651 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2021 : 16:15:30
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I think it is important that - close up if need be - one can tell an original from a reproduction chassis plate. For the benefit of future researches. I wouldn't want to see pure counterfeits out there.
The spring VMR magazine will carry a 12-page article on chassis plates and will hopefully enable anyone to make that distinction with confidence, at least for the M Type. |
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